Cancel Culture?

[thormas]

46 minutes ago, JosephM said:

When some protesters get violent, if you are a peaceful protester and have any common sense, you leave that area or else you become part of the problem and make it difficult for the police to protect the innocent from getting caught up in a dangerous situation.. At that point technically there are no more peaceful protesters because they have made themselves complicit by remaining with the troublemakers.

Ok, unless you are caught up in a crowd and trying to get to safety or unless you see this as an aberration and want to continue your peaceful protest. It is not the case that a truly peaceful protestor automatically becomes part of the problem.  Witness the Navy vet who was peacefully trying to get information from the federal agents (who lacked any identifying insignia or names) and was then ruthlessly attacked. The police or the Feds should be able to distinguish such an obvious peaceful citizen and deal with him/her differently.

If you are peaceful, aren't attacking the police or destroying property you are still technically peaceful and not automatically complicit. 

[thormas]

38 minutes ago, JosephM said:

Cancel culture — the phenomenon of promoting the “canceling” of people, brands and even shows and movies due to what some consider to be offensive or problematic remarks or ideologies.

Cancel Culture to me is an attempt to stifle and cancel free expression by the claim of  harm because of what someone or some symbol says to a person that they find offensive.  As Obama says its not activism ...  its being judgmental so you can feel better about yourself. It's in my opinion toxic because it is so subjective it is often taken too far .

We have been talking specifically about so called cancel culture as it pertains to confederate statues, monuments, names, etc. (at least most of us have I believe). The argument can credibly be made that some citizens (confederate sympathizers or fans or, in some cases, white nationalists) purposely 're-wrote' what they called the Lost Cause and tried to cancel out the reality of the slaves, slavery and blacks as truly free and equal people. Now, black men and women and others are trying to right that cancellation. 

Or, one could argue that monuments honoring soldiers/politicians who committed treason and fought for their rights (slavery) should never have occurred and should be 'cancelled.'

[PaulS]

8 hours ago, JosephM said:

Cancel culture — the phenomenon of promoting the “canceling” of people, brands and even shows and movies due to what some consider to be offensive or problematic remarks or ideologies.

Cancel Culture to me is an attempt to stifle and cancel free expression by the claim of  harm because of what someone or some symbol says to a person that they find offensive.  As Obama says its not activism ...  its being judgmental so you can feel better about yourself. It's in my opinion toxic because it is so subjective it is often taken too far .

We are humans and we love labels.  It makes life a lot simpler if we can just put other people's opinions in a convenient box.  In doing so we create two sides - apparently those violent 'cancel culture' protesters who only want anarchy and those we fear 'caving in' to such demands.  Both of these groups miss the point entirely.

As I said in my opening post "the term 'cancel culture' is getting thrown around fairly freely in a disparaging way by those opposed to people protesting about the existence of memorials to those who may be considered "yesterday's heroes" to those who were either racist or at least indifferent to racism, but there is an element of it I thought we could discuss."

Is the removal of statues, memorials and other uses such as "naming rights", commemorating people who have played a major part in the historical  repression, segregation and overall discrimination of black people (and by that term I mean African Americans in the US as well as indigenous Australians here in Oz) something whose time has come and should be considered for removal?  

I'm sorry I even used the term cancel culture as it seems to just give people an excuse to dismiss the underlying issue.  These issues existed long before the media coined a convenient term to put everything related to these issues, in one simple box.  I'd encourage people to look at the issue in depth, not get worried about the precise definition of a term created by the media, which in itself does not precisely capture all of the points associated with the issue in any case.

[PaulS]

8 hours ago, JosephM said:

When some protesters get violent, if you are a peaceful protester and have any common sense, you leave that area or else you become part of the problem and make it difficult for the police to protect the innocent from getting caught up in a dangerous situation.. At that point technically there are no more peaceful protesters because they have made themselves complicit by remaining with the troublemakers.

An overly simplistic view of a complicated matter.  When thousands of people are around you and some start to get violent or destructive, it's possible you don't even know,  then all of a sudden you can find you are caught up in the middle of it.  Because of that, to then be labelled a violent protester yourself, guilt by association, is lunacy.  It's not the law and it's not just.

[PaulS]

11 hours ago, Burl said:

Everything is saturated with propaganda now, and we are being encouraged to go along with manufactured narratives and not use critical thinking skills.  

It’s important to discern primary sources from secondary ones and actions from words.  

Is that why you posted that false propaganda concerning George Soros?  To demonstrate there are false absurdities out there like that, and we can expect people who don't use their critical thinking skills to swallow that manufactured narrative?

[Burl]

7 minutes ago, PaulS said:

Is that why you posted that false propaganda concerning George Soros?  To demonstrate there are false absurdities out there like that, and we can expect people who don't use their critical thinking skills to swallow that manufactured narrative?

Soros is an old Nazi.  He was part of the third reich and now the globalist fourth.

 

[PaulS]

31 minutes ago, Burl said:

Soros is an old Nazi.  He was part of the third reich and now the globalist fourth.

So did you post that false statement attributed to Soros because you did not not use critical thinking skills to discern accuracy of the statement?  Surely you don't want to be part of the propaganda spreading by attributing false statements to people, irrespective of what you otherwise think of them.  Surely the truth is more important than the 'argument'?

[Burl]

5 minutes ago, PaulS said:

So did you post that false statement attributed to Soros because you did not not use critical thinking skills to discern accuracy of the statement?  Surely you don't want to be part of the propaganda spreading by attributing false statements to people, irrespective of what you otherwise think of them.  Surely the truth is more important than the 'argument'.

What are you going on about?  Soros is an unrepentant Nazi.  The words came out of his own mouth.  Sending rich Jews to the camps so the Reich could steal their stuff was the highlight of his life.

His words; not mine.

[PaulS]

On 7/27/2020 at 8:23 AM, Burl said:

“Destroying America will be the culmination of my life’s work. I am going to bring down the United States by funding black hate groups. We will put them into a mental trap and make them blame white people. The black community is the easiest to manipulate.” ~ George Soros (interview with German Bild, September 2014)

This is the false statement you post earlier in this thread.  It is fake news.  It never happened.  It is the epitome of propaganda.

Did you post this because you were providing an example of fabrications to suit a manufactured narrative, or did you not use your critical thinking skills to discern a falsity, perhaps blinded by a bias you have for Soros?

[Burl]

1 minute ago, PaulS said:

This is the false statement you post earlier in this thread.  It is fake news.  It never happened.  It is the epitome of propaganda.

Did you post this because you were providing an example of fabrications to suit a manufactured narrative, or did you not use your critical thinking skills to discern a falsity?

Fooled me.  Not the first time.

[PaulS]

5 minutes ago, Burl said:

Fooled me.  Not the first time.

It happens.  The trick is knowing it's happening before somebody has to point it out to you I guess, otherwise you're just contributing to the same old manufactured, false narrative.  And of course it can also undermine one's credibility which nobody wants if they hope to be heard and/or understood..

[Burl]

Just now, PaulS said:

It happens.  The trick is knowing it's happening before somebody has to point it out to you I guess, otherwise you're just contributing to the same old manufactured, false narrative.

I just checked and the quote was attributed to “The Australian”.  Can you get behind the paywall?

And are you part of the lockdown?  Or is it lockdownunder?

[thormas]

48 minutes ago, Burl said:

Soros is an old Nazi.  He was part of the third reich and now the globalist fourth.

Does that mean he is a Jewish Nazi?

 

[thormas]

1 hour ago, PaulS said:

An overly simplistic view of a complicated matter.  When thousands of people are around you and some start to get violent or destructive, it's possible you don't even know,  then all of a sudden you can find you are caught up in the middle of it.  Because of that, to then be labelled a violent protester yourself, guilt by association, is lunacy.  It's not the law and it's not just.

What he said........

[thormas]

59 minutes ago, PaulS said:

Is that why you posted that false propaganda concerning George Soros?  To demonstrate there are false absurdities out there like that, and we can expect people who don't use their critical thinking skills to swallow that manufactured narrative?

Ouch!

[Burl]

Just now, thormas said:

Does that mean he is a Jewish Nazi?

 

Yes.  Plenty of Jewish Nazis.  American Nazis too.

I can understand how a young man can be caught up in events.  I don’t understand Soros’ lack of regret.  
 

[thormas]

1 minute ago, Burl said:

Yes.  Plenty of Jewish Nazis.  American Nazis too.

I can understand how a young man can be caught up in events.  I don’t understand Soros’ lack of regret.  
 

I get that there were Jewish collaborators but a Nazi? And of course we get that there are America Nazis today.

[PaulS]

34 minutes ago, Burl said:

I just checked and the quote was attributed to “The Australian”.  Can you get behind the paywall?

And are you part of the lockdown?  Or is it lockdownunder?

No, I don't subscribe to The Australian.  

I am very lucky - my state (Western Australia) is on the west coast of the country and has had zero cases of community transmission of covid19 for some time now, so our state is fully open and functioning within it's borders.  But we did go hard early on with restrictions such as shutting pubs & restaurants down and basically stopping people from congregating in groups for a few weeks until we flattened the curve.  Because of that we have been able to return to normal much earlier than elsewhere.  We do maintain a border protocol and those people who are allowed into our state must undergo two weeks quarantine upon arrival.

That's pretty much the case for 3/4 of the states here. Unfortunately our state of Victoria tried to reopen way too early.  They had utilized some restrictions but just weren't strict enough to overcome the curve and then they reopened too early and suffered a signification outbreak of community spread, so they are now trying hard to recover the situation and stop the spread.  An adjoining state to Victoria (New South Wales) is a little more affected, but Victoria by far is experiencing the worst of covid19 in Oz.

[thormas]

So what's the decision on Soros: is it propaganda and fake news or is he the Democratic devil?

[PaulS]

3 minutes ago, Burl said:

Yes.  Plenty of Jewish Nazis.  American Nazis too.

I can understand how a young man can be caught up in events.  I don’t understand Soros’ lack of regret.  
 

Maybe this is where conspiracy theory starts coming into it, but I didn't interpret his interview at all like you are portraying him.  He just seemed to be being bluntly honest - that as a 14 year old kid, he didn't feel guilt because he was living while others were being shipped off.  Rather he recognized that that could've been him otherwise, and this is what developed his character (so he says) concerning looking ahead and being forward planning.  He didn't relish in people being taken away and he seems to be a huge philanthropist, which normally doesn't gel with being a nazi, I wouldn't have thought.  But each to their own view I guess.

[Burl]

7 minutes ago, thormas said:

I get that there were Jewish collaborators but a Nazi? And of course we get that there are America Nazis today.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1996-12-24-mn-12209-story.html%3f_amp=true
 

 

[PaulS]

19 minutes ago, thormas said:

So what's the decision on Soros: is it propaganda and fake news or is he the Democratic devil?

Both - it just depends who you ask!

[thormas]

9 hours ago, PaulS said:

Both - it just depends who you ask!

But who is right, both can't be ................a Nazi or not, a demon or not.

[PaulS]

12 hours ago, thormas said:

But who is right, both can't be ................a Nazi or not, a demon or not.

Well, I was only joking, but in my view he is neither a Nazi or a demon.  Just a rich bloke with his views and probably thought of by some to be part of a greater conspiracy against mankind.  Each to their own.

[thormas]

18 minutes ago, PaulS said:

Well, I was only joking, but in my view he is neither a Nazi or a demon.  Just a rich bloke with his views and probably thought of by some to be part of a greater conspiracy against mankind.  Each to their own.

Agreed 

Edited August 5, 2020 by thormas