Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
PaulS

Cancel Culture?

Recommended Posts

5 hours ago, PaulS said:

Back to your YouTuber who has never experienced racism in his life.  I don't know if the Pew Research Centre is what you consider a leftist organisation who's research should be disregarded, but their research does seem to portray a different picture than happens to be your YouTuber's experience.

I consider the Pew research Centre neutral. (NON-partisan) They report polls and the polls you are showing me tell me 50% Blacks are pessimistic concerning whether they will ever have equal rights even though we have come a long way since Martin Luther King and others.. And of course they feel slavery has affected the position of Black people today and that our country hasn't  gone far enough.  The reasons they feel this way is not because of systemic racism, if it were so we would never have elected a Black president (for which i voted for) ,   but rather because as a result of slavery they were uneducated and underdeveloped. We have spent trillions on education, welfare, and priority business opportunities and giving preferences to minorities with program after program. It takes time and people, no matter what color have to take responsibility for themselves and work within the confines of society norms. The Irish, the Italians and other groups did it and strong family ties and sacrifices by our parents made it possible for us. While many Blacks have made better lives for themselves and their family a large percentage of Blacks have not and are still underdeveloped. Family units and culture have a lot to do with this as there are too many Black children growing up without fathers and too many single mothers with many children from different husbands. Perhaps they blame the whites and i have empathy for that but sooner or later you have to realize that you are responsible for yourself and say no to drugs, crime, and feeling sorry for your past and work hard to break free and make a new future. The Pew Centre says the great majority of  Blacks say its extremely important to identify as a Black. Though i am Italian i identify as just an American. I don't look at ethnicity as central to my identity. It takes time but as long as you identify more strongly with a race as central to your identity you will find it difficult to fit in  to society as a whole. The majority of whites are simply not racists. 

Black adults are more likely than other groups to see their race or ethnicity as central to their identity

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You want to tear down a monument?

https://www.dinosaurkingdomii.com
A Virginia attraction documenting the Union Army’s battle against the dinosaurs.

C995-B380-CE77-440-E-8366-4819-B2-DF9100

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Paul,

In the US we give preferential treatment to minorities. There are 14 Federal Grant programs specifically for minorities. In many cases to meet quotas Blacks are hired over more qualified Whites. 

For federal contractors and subcontractors, affirmative action must be taken by covered employers to recruit and advance qualified minorities, women, persons with disabilities, and covered veterans. Affirmative actions include training programs, outreach efforts, and other positive steps. These procedures should be incorporated into the company's written personnel policies. Employers with written affirmative action programs must implement them, keep them on file and update them annually.

And then there is minority private organizations and Federally sponsored organizations to0 numerable to mention .... 

These well-known organizations administer grant and scholarship programs for ethnic minority students.
  • United Negro College Fund advances education for African American students through scholarships and other aid programs. ...
  • Hispanic College Fund.
  • Bureau of Indian Affairs.
  • American Indian College Fund.
  • NAACP.
  • African American College Grants

and many more

And Here is a rare CNN article on black privilege. If i formed an organization for the advancement of white people that would be racism. Perhaps this article might give you some insight to both sides of an issue in why many Americans (Black, White and all minorities) are getting fed up with all this racism talk.

https://www.cnn.com/2016/03/30/us/black-privilege/index.html

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Paul,

I applaud you on your research, reporting and most especially  your empathy toward your fellow human beings.

You are on the right side of history: the last state flag in the United States has dropped the confederate flag; the SEC and the NCAA spoke and football won over a lost ideology, defeated ages ago; the NFL now supports its players; Nascar, a huge spot in the south, had banned the confederate flag; and the statues continue to come down, now and in our future. America is browning after all. And those who chant 'white power' are increasing seen as those who never understood their history and, therefore, could never bear witness to the new world forming on our horizon - in which all of us are, in word, deed, action and law, equal! 

These monuments will come down, Forts will be renamed, the last of the gentlemen generals, although some admired for personal traits, will be highlighted and REMEMBERED as committing treason. Yet in spite of their defeat and surrender, the names of these once proud warriors were hijacked and statues built to re-write a history that they never accomplished in life.

The Southern heritage is defeated and gone but what one can almost hear history echo with voices long gone, yet getting stronger, getting louder "......thank God Almighty, free at last............all ARE Free at Last.'  

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/1/2020 at 9:10 PM, JosephM said:

Frankly, i think your analogy is a bit extreme. We are talking about some people being offended not about

I don't think it's that extreme - just demonstrating that people who feel they don't have a voice or aren't being listened to, took violent and destructive action back in the Tea Party days.  I think you trivilaise the issue if you think it is only about some blacks being 'offended'.  I think it runs a lot deeper than that, but each to their own opinion.

On 7/1/2020 at 9:10 PM, JosephM said:

Discussions are fine but this here in the US is not discussions. Even many Blacks object to what is going on.

There are discussions, e.g. New Orleans and others who have been driving this agenda for years and years.  Unfortunately, the people who are now getting all the attention are the destructive vandals, which is clear to see has now become the issue getting in the way of what could be good discussion about moving race relations forward in the US.  Alas now all the focus is on those who cause havoc and destruction as though they are the ONLY voice in this discussion.

On 7/1/2020 at 9:10 PM, JosephM said:

Well, it seems to me this whole issue is about "cancel culture" . The monuments and statues are part of our historical culture and there is a clear movement to cancel them.

I disagree - It's not about cancelling historic culture, but rather about properly addressing history so that a large part of the population who's ancestors were abused, killed and tortured because of what these memorialized people stood for,  might not be excluded from the story going forward.  I think people need to recognize the harm that is caused by telling blacks to get over a statue that memorializes men who fought to keep slavery intact.  

Confederate monuments, as well as Confederate-named Army bases, are modern inventions meant to distort history and celebrate a racist past.

These symbols serve one primary purpose — to honor figures of the past who upheld an undemocratic vision of America. They were created by white supremacists. And they function as a balm for white supremacists who long to return to a period when Americans regarded black people as property.

History can be taught in books and schools - memorials can be placed in museums with balanced explanations about both what they stood for and what they stood against.  I personally don't see the harm in empathizing with those that feel oppressed by such statues and accommodating their concerns in efforts to bring your nation together.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/1/2020 at 10:02 PM, JosephM said:

The Pew Centre says the great majority of  Blacks say its extremely important to identify as a Black. Though i am Italian i identify as just an American. I don't look at ethnicity as central to my identity. It takes time but as long as you identify more strongly with a race as central to your identity you will find it difficult to fit in  to society as a whole. The majority of whites are simply not racists. 

I didn't think we were arguing about whether the majority of whites are racist - I wasn't anyway.  I'm just noting that many are and that racism is still a significant issues in the lives of black people.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/2/2020 at 1:41 AM, JosephM said:

Paul,

In the US we give preferential treatment to minorities. There are 14 Federal Grant programs specifically for minorities. In many cases to meet quotas Blacks are hired over more qualified Whites. 

For federal contractors and subcontractors, affirmative action must be taken by covered employers to recruit and advance qualified minorities, women, persons with disabilities, and covered veterans. Affirmative actions include training programs, outreach efforts, and other positive steps. These procedures should be incorporated into the company's written personnel policies. Employers with written affirmative action programs must implement them, keep them on file and update them annually.

And then there is minority private organizations and Federally sponsored organizations to0 numerable to mention .... 

These well-known organizations administer grant and scholarship programs for ethnic minority students.
  • United Negro College Fund advances education for African American students through scholarships and other aid programs. ...
  • Hispanic College Fund.
  • Bureau of Indian Affairs.
  • American Indian College Fund.
  • NAACP.
  • African American College Grants

and many more

And Here is a rare CNN article on black privilege. If i formed an organization for the advancement of white people that would be racism. Perhaps this article might give you some insight to both sides of an issue in why many Americans (Black, White and all minorities) are getting fed up with all this racism talk.

https://www.cnn.com/2016/03/30/us/black-privilege/index.html

Australia has similar programs and positive-discrimination policies to help indigenous Australian's.  These are good steps forward compared to what was in place (i.e. nothing) only several decades ago.  It's not an issue that will be progressed or solved overnight or even within generations.  I think we need to keep moving forward and I think removing barriers and obstacles such as monuments and memorials to white people who did their very best to keep black people down (and in the US's case in slavery), just shows blacks, and maybe more importantly, other whites, that we are trying harder to move forward and heal as a people.  I don't think it's a big ask myself, but each to their own.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, PaulS said:

Australia has similar programs and positive-discrimination policies to help indigenous Australian's.  These are good steps forward compared to what was in place (i.e. nothing) only several decades ago.  It's not an issue that will be progressed or solved overnight or even within generations.  I think we need to keep moving forward and I think removing barriers and obstacles such as monuments and memorials to white people who did their very best to keep black people down (and in the US's case in slavery), just shows blacks, and maybe more importantly, other whites, that we are trying harder to move forward and heal as a people.  I don't think it's a big ask myself, but each to their own.

Paul, you are basing your opinion on American propaganda.  I spent 25 adult years in New Orleans and was professionally involved with many organizations and issues.
 

I could tell stories for days.  Obviously you have a good heart but you are low info on American race issues and the war of Northern aggression, which puts you on par with most Americans.

The statue thing today is an organized PR stunt.  It will be gone shortly after the election.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Paul has adequately responded to the 'basing opinions on propaganda' charges and come out ahead.

 

Besides that is simply an old ploy of those who ignore history and push their own propaganda: the war of northern aggression is always a favorite as is a 'patriotic' defense of statues as led by..........well the trumpeter yesterday. The issue of statues - not the PR -  will remain with up but eventually the status will go, some to museums and others to the garbage bin of history - alongside all the imagined trumpster statues, memorials and places named after him that dance in his head as he tweets beyond midnight in his hamburger stained bathrobe.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/4/2020 at 7:06 AM, PaulS said:

I don't think it's that extreme - just demonstrating that people who feel they don't have a voice or aren't being listened to, took violent and destructive action back in the Tea Party days.  I think you trivilaise the issue if you think it is only about some blacks being 'offended'.  I think it runs a lot deeper than that, but each to their own opinion.

Perhaps this letter might clear up my trivialization. Quite true but humorous at same time

> This is an e-mail sent to Clarence Page of the Chicago Tribune after an article he published concerning a name change for the Washington Redskins.
>
> Dear Mr. Page: I agree with our Native American population. I am highly jilted by the racially charged name of the Washington Redskins. One might argue that to name a professional football team after Native
> Americans would exalt them as fine warriors, but nay, nay. We must be careful not to offend, and in the spirit of political correctness and courtesy, we must move forward.
>
> Let's ditch the Kansas City Chiefs, the Atlanta Braves and the Cleveland Indians. If your shorts are in a wad because of the  reference the name Redskins makes to skin color, then we need to get rid of the Cleveland Browns.
>
> The Carolina Panthers obviously were named to keep the memory of militant Blacks from the 60's alive. Gone. It's offensive to us white  folk.
>
> The New York Yankees offend the Southern population. Do you see a team named for the Confederacy? No! There is no room for any reference to that tragic war that cost this country so many young men's lives. I> am also offended by the blatant references to the Catholic religion among our sports team names. Totally inappropriate to have the New  Orleans Saints, the Los Angeles Angels or the San Diego Padres.
>
> Then there are the team names that glorify criminals who raped and pillaged. We are talking about the horrible Oakland Raiders, the Minnesota Vikings, the Tampa Bay Buccaneers and the Pittsburgh  Pirates!
>
> Now, let us address those teams that clearly send the wrong message to our children. The San Diego Chargers promote irresponsible fighting or even spending habits. Wrong message to our children.
>
> The New York Giants and the San Francisco Giants promote obesity, a growing childhood epidemic. Wrong message to our children. The Cincinnati Reds promote downers/barbiturates. Wrong message to our
> children.
>
> The Milwaukee Brewers. Well that goes without saying. Wrong message
> to our children.
>
> So, there you go. We need to support any legislation that comes out to rectify this travesty, because the government will likely become involved with this issue, as they should. Just the kind of thing the  do-nothing Congress loves.
>
> As a die-hard Oregon State fan, my wife and I, with all of this in mind, suggest it might also make some sense to change the name of the
> Oregon State women's athletic teams to something other than "the Beavers (especially when they play Southern California. Do we really want the Trojans sticking it to the Beavers???
>
> I always love your articles and I generally agree with them. As for the Redskins name I would suggest they change the name to the
> "Foreskins" to better represent their community, paying tribute to the dick heads in Washington DC.
>

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

On the lighter side ......

 
 
 
 
 
image.png

 

Thanks,    Joseph  😃😄image.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yet some of us and others have already made the point that there is a difference between those depicted above and those who committed treason in the service of slavery.

 

Interesting that there are no legal bills with the images of those that committed treason. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, JosephM said:

The young speak out

.......ample evidence that too few, of certain of the young, don't read and are doomed to follow in the footsteps of those of their elders who are also out of step with that is going on in America.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, thormas said:

Yet some of us and others have already made the point that there is a difference between those depicted above and those who committed treason in the service of slavery.

 

Interesting that there are no legal bills with the images of those that committed treason. 

Even more interesting is that all of those FRN’s are slave script.  They have no asset content but are debt notes which, at the Federal minimum wage, are iou’s on roughly 6 minutes of labor per $1.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, JosephM said:

Saw a video by a young black man who was furious that BLM, Inc. tried to prevent him from using the phrase “black lives matter” because he was not authorized by BLM.

Also this: Lord Jamar on BLM, Inc.  Scrub to 3:30.  Contains profanity.

It’s not about statues.  It’s about street theatre and

Biden
 Laundering
 Money

Edited by Burl

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Burl said:

It’s not about statues.  It’s about street theatre and

Biden
 Laundering
 Money

Well, statues, monuments, forts, schools, streets..........................best to begin to change now and move into the future.

 

Biden vs. the trumpster on money and possible laundering. A winner for the dems.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, JosephM said:

Perhaps this letter might clear up my trivialization. Quite true but humorous at same time

> This is an e-mail sent to Clarence Page of the Chicago Tribune after an article he published concerning a name change for the Washington Redskins.
>
> Dear Mr. Page: I agree with our Native American population. I am highly jilted by the racially charged name of the Washington Redskins. One might argue that to name a professional football team after Native
> Americans would exalt them as fine warriors, but nay, nay. We must be careful not to offend, and in the spirit of political correctness and courtesy, we must move forward.
>
> Let's ditch the Kansas City Chiefs, the Atlanta Braves and the Cleveland Indians. If your shorts are in a wad because of the  reference the name Redskins makes to skin color, then we need to get rid of the Cleveland Browns.
>
> The Carolina Panthers obviously were named to keep the memory of militant Blacks from the 60's alive. Gone. It's offensive to us white  folk.
>
> The New York Yankees offend the Southern population. Do you see a team named for the Confederacy? No! There is no room for any reference to that tragic war that cost this country so many young men's lives. I> am also offended by the blatant references to the Catholic religion among our sports team names. Totally inappropriate to have the New  Orleans Saints, the Los Angeles Angels or the San Diego Padres.
>
> Then there are the team names that glorify criminals who raped and pillaged. We are talking about the horrible Oakland Raiders, the Minnesota Vikings, the Tampa Bay Buccaneers and the Pittsburgh  Pirates!
>
> Now, let us address those teams that clearly send the wrong message to our children. The San Diego Chargers promote irresponsible fighting or even spending habits. Wrong message to our children.
>
> The New York Giants and the San Francisco Giants promote obesity, a growing childhood epidemic. Wrong message to our children. The Cincinnati Reds promote downers/barbiturates. Wrong message to our
> children.
>
> The Milwaukee Brewers. Well that goes without saying. Wrong message
> to our children.
>
> So, there you go. We need to support any legislation that comes out to rectify this travesty, because the government will likely become involved with this issue, as they should. Just the kind of thing the  do-nothing Congress loves.
>
> As a die-hard Oregon State fan, my wife and I, with all of this in mind, suggest it might also make some sense to change the name of the
> Oregon State women's athletic teams to something other than "the Beavers (especially when they play Southern California. Do we really want the Trojans sticking it to the Beavers???
>
> I always love your articles and I generally agree with them. As for the Redskins name I would suggest they change the name to the
> "Foreskins" to better represent their community, paying tribute to the dick heads in Washington DC.
>

No, it didn't really.  It seems you are still choosing to throw several different levels of debate/protest/violence into the same single dismissive pot.

I liked the followup article Clarence Page wrote concerning this letter.  I thought Page made a good point about the word 'Redskin' being a racial slur, as opposed to legitimate describing words such as Chiefs, Braves and Indians.  I doubt you would agree with calling a native American a 'redskin' today, so I kinda think Page's original article was just acknowledging that people could apply some respect to the cultures that white people had ridiculed in the past and perhaps be mature enough to say "You're right.  Redskin was once used as a racial slur, but we are bigger than that these days and we would like to show our native american brothers and sisters that we are all one nation, with equal dignity and equal rights".  I just don't see it being a big deal myself.  It seems the anti-change brigade get their shorts in a wad just as much as they think those who propose change do.

I didn't really think it was humorous or quite true at all.  I think the author misses the point altogether and distorts Page's intention - made clear where this letter writer can't differentiate between a racial slur and a legitimate describing word.  But it makes good fodder for those so against considering the other point of view.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, JosephM said:

Now here is some great propaganda!  Surely you don't agree with what she is saying?

You are not a racist if you say all lives matter - the point the likes of BLM are trying to make is that by trying to diminish BLM with ALM is like trying to say all cancer kills when people are trying to draw attention to breast cancer.  Of course all lives matter, but the movement is trying to get people to notice that black deaths are over-represented as a percentage of your population.  But I would say, there is a wide range of opinions (on both sides) that take things to extremes.

You don't have to apologize for standing for your flag, but there are some extremist who might hate you for it.

You are allowed to go to church and no, you are not 'allowed' to burn churches to the ground.  This is getting ludicrous.

You are not allowed to go and loot other business just as much as you are not allowed to go and murder or rape people - but there are some who do that!

Police are not all considered racist pigs - but some are.

etc etc etc

'The' young speak out - God, I hope not, or you guys are in much, much worse shape than it already seems!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
33 minutes ago, PaulS said:

The' young speak out - God, I hope not, or you guys are in much, much worse shape than it already seems!

It is. It's out of control.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, PaulS said:

Now here is some great propaganda!  Surely you don't agree with what she is saying?

You are not a racist if you say all lives matter - the point the likes of BLM are trying to make is that by trying to diminish BLM with ALM is like trying to say all cancer kills when people are trying to draw attention to breast cancer.  Of course all lives matter, but the movement is trying to get people to notice that black deaths are over-represented as a percentage of your population.  But I would say, there is a wide range of opinions (on both sides) that take things to extremes.

You don't have to apologize for standing for your flag, but there are some extremist who might hate you for it.

You are allowed to go to church and no, you are not 'allowed' to burn churches to the ground.  This is getting ludicrous.

You are not allowed to go and loot other business just as much as you are not allowed to go and murder or rape people - but there are some who do that!

Police are not all considered racist pigs - but some are.

etc etc etc

'The' young speak out - God, I hope not, or you guys are in much, much worse shape than it already seems!

Bright young woman in that clip, but lots of hyperbole.  She exaggerates to make her point.  Reminds me of the Antitheses in Matthew. 

Contrast with Lord Jamar‘s interview where he explains why BLM is a sexist & white controlled organization co-opting black concerns to raise money for white people, push unrelated agendas and paint black activists as vandals.  

The ‘all lives matter’ trope was 2016.  Lord Jamar is on point for 2020.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, PaulS said:

Now here is some great propaganda!  Surely you don't agree with what she is saying?

You are not a racist if you say all lives matter - the point the likes of BLM are trying to make is that by trying to diminish BLM with ALM is like trying to say all cancer kills when people are trying to draw attention to breast cancer.  Of course all lives matter, but the movement is trying to get people to notice that black deaths are over-represented as a percentage of your population.  But I would say, there is a wide range of opinions (on both sides) that take things to extremes.

You don't have to apologize for standing for your flag, but there are some extremist who might hate you for it.

You are allowed to go to church and no, you are not 'allowed' to burn churches to the ground.  This is getting ludicrous.

You are not allowed to go and loot other business just as much as you are not allowed to go and murder or rape people - but there are some who do that!

Police are not all considered racist pigs - but some are.

etc etc etc

'The' young speak out - God, I hope not, or you guys are in much, much worse shape than it already seems!

Well said Paul. Lots of propaganda and lots of questionable (as you have done) comments.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Burl said:

Bright young woman in that clip, but lots of hyperbole.  She exaggerates to make her point.  Reminds me of the Antitheses in Matthew. 

Contrast with Lord Jamar‘s interview where he explains why BLM is a sexist & white controlled organization co-opting black concerns to raise money for white people, push unrelated agendas and paint black activists as vandals.  

The ‘all lives matter’ trope was 2016.  Lord Jamar is on point for 2020.

 

Obviously, BLM is even more meaningful today and to many more of all backgrounds, across the country, as evidenced over the past 6-7 weeks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It seems to me regardless of the location (US, Austrailia, UK, etc.) when ethnic origin becomes more important to an individual than assimilating into that established society, there will always be a THEM and an US , whether white against black or black against white or any minority based on color or religion or culture,  racism will prosper and always provide an opportunity to pop up its ugly head. We can have diversity but it must include assimilation for peace and law and order to prevail. That's my two cents or if your Australian with more than 2 cents,  2 bobs.🙂

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Genuine assimilation allows for true diversity/difference AND establishing a society wherein all are actually equal. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

terms of service