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PaulS

Heaven & Hell

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, PaulS said:

That makes absolutely no sense - if you didn’t read my last post how would you even know whether it was conversation or confrontation? :)

Of course, you did read it.  And you see the convenience in moving on rather than addressing what I am pointing out.  

However, peace to you brother.  I hold no grudge.  It’s let gone.

Because you wrote it, it goes on forever and based on all your prior posts where you are confrontational. 

Actually I didn't read it................but if there are, let's say 2, at the most 3, really important issues for you that I address, you let me know and I'll address them.

 

 

Careful Paul, you're an administrator (whether you sign as one or not) but even if just as a fellow contributor, you just called a fellow contributor a liar.

Welcome to 2020!  Is this the new start you spoke about?

 

P.S.

I added here because I ran out of posts and cannot post one after your later remarks and I'm editing to highlight the 'gist' of your words. To that end, I'm good with the last word and the one after that.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by thormas

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1 minute ago, thormas said:

Because you wrote it, it goes on forever and based on all your prior posts where you are confrontational. 

Actually I didn't read it................but if there are, let's say 2, at the most 3, really important issues for you that I address, you let me know and I'll address them.

 

I’ve let it go Thormas - see if you can.

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29 minutes ago, thormas said:

Just saw your latest note below.

Careful Paul, you're an administrator (whether you sign as one or not) but even if just as a fellow contributor, you just called a fellow contributor a liar. Welcome to 2020!

Nope, seems you need the last word, even if you edit it into a previous post.  And then re-edit that previous post to make it read like it was originally continuous.  Love your work mate! 😀

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1 hour ago, thormas said:

 

1 hour ago, thormas said:

Welcome to 2020!  Is this the new start you spoke about?

 

I’m trying Thormas, I hope you will too.

Peace and goodwill.

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I myself don't think there is that much of a problem when someone criticizes one part or another of a religion. It helps if this is constructive criticism instead of just saying it's all dumb or is really just picking on others because they think differently or because the picker needs someone to pick on because they themselves are afraid of getting picked on.

Constructive criticism often comes from those people who really care, either about society at large and or for individuals who are involved in ideas that could hurt them psychologically. Hell seems to be one of these ideas.

I think that it's also very positive when one, or people, can criticize their own tradition or belief system from within. This is caused self-criticism. I think this can be a very good and powerful thing.

If folks would like to see some very powerful self-criticism from within the Christian faith, from someone who is a life long Christian, and even an ordained bishop, this might be a good video. It's a presentation given by John Shelby Spong who I understand is also a central and celebrated figure within Progressive Christianity. It was given just before the release of his book, 'Sins of the Scriptures'. 

 

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, PaulS said:

I’m trying Thormas...............

Sure Paul: just like you believed me when I said I didn't read your long post  - I believe you. 

 

Edited by thormas

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34 minutes ago, thormas said:

Sure Paul: just like you believed me when I said I didn't read your long post  - I believe you. 

 

Okay then.  I’m at peace with that.  Peace to you.

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22 minutes ago, PaulS said:

Okay then.  I’m at peace with that.  Peace to you.

Be the change Paul, don't talk about it, be the change and then you will actually let Peace be with others.

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6 minutes ago, thormas said:

Be the change Paul, don't talk about it, be the change and then you will actually let Peace be with others.

Indeed.  I agree.

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On 3/7/2020 at 2:43 PM, romansh said:

I am led to believe PC is accepting of ALL, even scientific and non spiritual people? Or is there something different about this particular forum?

Even if I think it is harmful to the community?

I am sure you find some of my positions nonsense. These are the ones I would love to discuss.

This PC forum  is accepting of you Rom and it is good to have you here but i would not call your opinions nonsense even if the thought entered my mind. I hope you will consider that others don't find it compassionate to refer to their positions as nonsense even though you might not mind it yourself. It get you nowhere close to what i hope you are trying to accomplish (getting people to consider other ideas) by using such phrases. That is my opinion and one of the guidelines of etiquette on this forum. Try to be more sensitive in getting your points across.

Thanks for your presumed understanding,

JosephM (as Moderator)

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On 3/7/2020 at 4:55 PM, romansh said:

whether or not I am welcome in your eyes.

 

On 3/7/2020 at 5:42 PM, thormas said:

for me, 'old- timers,' newbies and all in-betweens are welcome.

..........since you asked, indeed you are welcome .......

 

On 3/7/2020 at 7:16 PM, thormas said:

Am I correct that we are also welcome in your eyes and by you?

Rom,

Did you ever give an answer, did I miss it?

You asked me directly and I gave an answer and I see that Joseph has also given you an answer - but how about you Rom: are you welcoming, do you welcome ALL on this site?

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On 3/9/2020 at 11:14 PM, thormas said:

Careful Paul, you're an administrator (whether you sign as one or not) but even if just as a fellow contributor, you just called a fellow contributor a liar.

Welcome to 2020!  Is this the new start you spoke about?

So I've been thinking about this a bit and have thought I would apologize to Thormas by way of PM, but that might not be fair considering I made my initial comment on a shared thread.  So instead, I think it is more appropriate to apologize here.

So, for what it's worth, I apologize unreservedly Thormas for saying you actually did read my post when you said you didn't.  That in effect meant I was calling you a liar in public.  It was an inappropriate comment to make, either as a member or as an Administrator, and I am sorry.  That's not the type of forum I want us to build here.

Regards

Paul

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13 minutes ago, PaulS said:

So I've been thinking about this a bit and have thought I would apologize to Thormas by way of PM, but that might not be fair considering I made my initial comment on a shared thread.  So instead, I think it is more appropriate to apologize here.

So, for what it's worth, I apologize unreservedly Thormas for saying you actually did read my post when you said you didn't.  That in effect meant I was calling you a liar in public.  It was an inappropriate comment to make, either as a member or as an Administrator, and I am sorry.  That's not the type of forum I want us to build here.

Regards

Paul

Paul,

Thank you and I sincerely accept your apology.

 

 

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2 minutes ago, thormas said:

Paul,

Thank you and I sincerely accept your apology.

Thanks.

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On 3/10/2020 at 4:50 AM, thormas said:

Did you ever give an answer, did I miss it?

No I did not answer it thormas. Did you notice my  I was travelling? I also took the question as … I am not sure how to put it … at best rhetorical? But as you seem genuinely desirous I don't welcome everyone,in that, as I am not a Progressive Christian I don't feel I should be welcoming of everyone. It would be like me welcoming visitors to your house. 

I enjoy points of view that open a possibility that I have not seen before, I don't enjoy points of view that I happen to find condescending or perhaps even disingenuous. 

As to Joseph's comment on me calling a the concept of a literal hell a nonsense. This comment was made without knowing some PCs believe this. Here's my problem, surely there are some concepts that are a nonsense …  take a flat Earth.  Or perhaps something more dangerous … the MMR anti vax propaganda is nonsense or antisemitism/racism as a creed is nonsense?

Should I stand up for what I believe in or be 'nice'?

But back to your original point … I treat you and everyone else here as I treat everyone else in the rest of the wide world.

 

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2 hours ago, thormas said:

But even your response is not very welcoming.

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19 hours ago, romansh said:

As to Joseph's comment on me calling a the concept of a literal hell a nonsense. This comment was made without knowing some PCs believe this. Here's my problem, surely there are some concepts that are a nonsense …  take a flat Earth.  Or perhaps something more dangerous … the MMR anti vax propaganda is nonsense or antisemitism/racism as a creed is nonsense?

Should I stand up for what I believe in or be 'nice'

Bold empahsis added by me .

If a person wishes to believe the world is flat, what will calling it nonsense accomplish except possibly to feed ones own ego? Show him a picture or prove it is another shape by reasoning or logic seems a good solution. If they still don't buy it why resort to such a measure as saying it is nonsense? The nonsense card is in my view an attack that provokes disharmony or loath or possibly  even hate in the other. It seems to me very few people are enticed to change their view when it is called nonsense. More times than not it provokes emotions that contribute to being less rational. Perhaps you are an exception?

It seems to me one can stand up for what they believe and still be 'nice'. (doesn't have to be an either or)    I had assumed you understood that. Perhaps  i was  incorrect or am not reading your post with sufficient understanding?

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13 minutes ago, JosephM said:

It seems to me one can stand up for what they believe and still be 'nice'. (doesn't have to be an either or) 

I get this Joseph. For me, calling a concept nonsense is being 'nice'. 

I think you may have pointed out reason alone won't persuade anyone. So from my point of view I am using the tools at hand. Whether it works or not is another matter. Also I think we have to consider bystanders who have not made up their minds. While everyone is entitled to an opinion, some opinions are just flat out wrong.

I don't mean to offend and if I do offend anyone my apologies. But as you are likely well aware the responsibility feeling of offence lies not just with the offender but also with the offended. 

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Posted (edited)
36 minutes ago, romansh said:

I get this Joseph. For me, calling a concept nonsense is being 'nice'. 

Not acceptable here

Quote

I think you may have pointed out reason alone won't persuade anyone. So from my point of view I am using the tools at hand. Whether it works or not is another matter. Also I think we have to consider bystanders who have not made up their minds. While everyone is entitled to an opinion, some opinions are just flat out wrong.

Just flat out wrong to whom. (opinion again) What is right and wrong opinion except as you and i might say subjective views? Regardless they are opinions and calling another 's opinion wrong will not win them over . I'm sorry if you can't see the negative in that. They are the guidelines we have here and one can see what happens to discussions when we cross over them. Education stops and personalities clash and discussions digress.

Quote

I don't mean to offend and if I do offend anyone my apologies. But as you are likely well aware the responsibility feeling of offence lies not just with the offender but also with the offended. 

While i agree wholeheartedly with your statement,  and you may have crossed that impasse in your journey and the larger problem may be with the one taking offence , why not allow another forum that tolerates such exchanges where there are more willing perpetrators and willing victims (teachers and students) to satisfy the offenders (perpetrator's) appetite for such offence and the offended (victim's) reluctant to realize that one doesn't have to receive offence? This forum site owner has already made that choice in the guidelines for compassionate posts. Is that right or wrong? Doesn't matter. It is what it is. One is welcome to participate within the guidelines or not at all unless you can convince me why it should be otherwise privately. We still take baby-steps here. Some progress on to bigger things and leave.

JosephM (Site owner)

Edited by JosephM
added words

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Posted (edited)
21 hours ago, romansh said:

No I did not answer it thormas. Did you notice my  I was travelling? I also took the question as … I am not sure how to put it … at best rhetorical? But as you seem genuinely desirous I don't welcome everyone,in that, as I am not a Progressive Christian I don't feel I should be welcoming of everyone. It would be like me welcoming visitors to your house. 

I enjoy points of view that open a possibility that I have not seen before, I don't enjoy points of view that I happen to find condescending or perhaps even disingenuous. 

As to Joseph's comment on me calling a the concept of a literal hell a nonsense. This comment was made without knowing some PCs believe this. Here's my problem, surely there are some concepts that are a nonsense …  take a flat Earth.  Or perhaps something more dangerous … the MMR anti vax propaganda is nonsense or antisemitism/racism as a creed is nonsense?

Should I stand up for what I believe in or be 'nice'?

But back to your original point … I treat you and everyone else here as I treat everyone else in the rest of the wide world.

 

Didn't we have that discussion prior to your travels? And how long does it take to type the word "YES!" or in your case 'no' ? BTW, that one is rhetorical.

I find the things you mentioned (for example, flat earth and anti-semitism) 'nonsense' and better, that I simply disagree but, on a site such as this, when I see that some people believe in a literal hell, I am quite capable of disagreeing without hurting people and calling their belief nonsense - for no other reason than self-stroking. Certainly it is not for them and it is not to prevent 'harm' in the community. BTW, some of us can 'stand up for what we believe' and still be nice. 

Actually my original point was simply about welcoming on this site, I actually don't care how you treat people in the rest of the world - especially if this is the way you treat them. 

 

 

 

Edited by thormas

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1 hour ago, romansh said:

.......... feeling of offence lies not just with the offender but also with the offended. 

But the offender is the one who starts the ball rolling........

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1 hour ago, thormas said:

But the offender is the one who starts the ball rolling........

Thomas, It really doesn't matter . There is no point arguing , feeding the issue or members discussing it with him more. It is completely off topic except for administrators. Please drop it.   While there is a truth in his statement,  it doesn't matter because it has already been ruled on and for now at least, any statements in defense of his behavior  are unacceptable by him on this thread.(period) Any complaints one has can go to the complaint forum or discussed by PM.

JosephM (as Mod)

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On 3/8/2020 at 7:52 PM, thormas said:

I didn't as asking for autographs is too weird for me - I never think of it. 

But it's fine you asked.

BTW - I did get John Shelby Spong's autograph once, (on the inside cover of his latest book at the time) and also a bit of a conversation and a hug!

Maybe I'm a little dumb or "weird", but that's ok with me, at least in this respect! . 🙂 .

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On 3/8/2020 at 7:52 PM, thormas said:

I didn't as asking for autographs is too weird for me - I never think of it. 

But it's fine you asked.

BTW - I did get John Shelby Spong's autograph once, (on the inside cover of his latest book at the time) and also a bit of a conversation and a hug!

Maybe I'm a little dumb or "weird", but that's ok with me, at least in this respect! . 🙂 .

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Posted (edited)
On 3/8/2020 at 7:52 PM, thormas said:

I didn't as asking for autographs is too weird for me - I never think of it. 

But it's fine you asked.

BTW - I did get John Shelby Spong's autograph once, (on the inside cover of his latest book at the time) and also a bit of a conversation and a hug!

Maybe I'm a little dumb or "weird", but that's ok with me, at least in this respect! . 🙂 .

add/edit > something weird happened here. The software kept telling me I needed to wait 57 minutes to post this post. I kept doing that and it kept telling me that, so I ended up posting it like 5 times. I can't figure out how to delete them, is there a way to do that? Thanks

Sorry about all this / that

Edited by Elen1107
see above

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