Bill Maher's Grudge Against Christians

[AletheiaRivers]

Have you ever noticed that the best conversations happen when a thread goes off topic? But if another thread is started on the topic that the current thread wandered off on, then it dies?

 

When I think of intervention or intercession from God, I think of God doing things like - curing someone's cancer, stopping a car bomb, preventing a tidal wave, leading someone to their lost keys or to a parking spot, etc ... It begs the question - why cure THAT person's cancer, but not the other person's? Why stop THAT car bomb and save those people but not the other car bomb? Etc ...

 

When I was a Witness the WTS used to go on and on about how Jehovah prevented this Witness from getting killed in a war or helped save that Witness his job when ther rest of the employees were fired ... etc ... ad nauseam. To make claims like that is, to borrow a word you used, hubris.

 

I dunno. I guess it's a fine line. If we define any interaction as intervention, then yeah, I believe God intervenes. I guess I'd like to define interaction differently than intervention.

 

I do think God is there to offer guidance and comfort. I think most of the time that guidance is rather roundabout and subtle, but there might be times ...

Edited June 16, 2005 by AletheiaRivers

[AletheiaRivers]

Have you read "The Heart of Christianity," by Borg? If not, it would be well worth reading. He lays out an inviting vision for what progressive Christianity could look like...

 

Humorously enough, there is a Heart of Christianity thread on the Book Discussion forum, where we discussed, among other things, prayer and intervention.

[Cynthia]

Humorously enough, there is a Heart of Christianity thread on the Book Discussion forum, where we discussed, among other things, prayer and intervention. laugh.gif

 

Yes, but not (as I recall) in the same tone

 

I loved The Heart of Christianity!

 

As far as interaction vs intervention... I don't see a meaningful distinction. I do sympathize with the "but not like them" impulse

 

"I do think God is there to offer guidance and comfort. I think most of the time that guidance is rather roundabout and subtle, but there might be times ... smile.gif

 

Agreed! I just don't think I have any significant information on what causes/compels/encourages/??? God to interact/intervene.

 

"Borg also rails against the notion that God is in the business of punishment and reward.

 

I agree with this. There is a scripture which I cannot id - somebody help! - regarding the idea that the more you know of spiritual things, the more will be expected of you... makes you want to put the books down - quickly!

[FredP]

I agree with this.  There is a scripture which I cannot id - somebody help! - regarding the idea that the more you know of spiritual things, the more will be expected of you... makes you want to put the books down - quickly!

"From everyone to whom much has been given, much will be required." (Luke 12:48)

[Cynthia]

Thanks Fred!!!!

 

Actually I think it is Emmett Fox who interprets this in almost a Karma debt sort of way!

Edited June 16, 2005 by Cynthia

[AletheiaRivers]

Yes, but not (as I recall) in the same tone.

 

Ah, yes. I just reread the thread. It started out well enough, but then it turned into a debate about thinking versus experiencing.

 

I am torn in situations like that. I seem to be both an "armchair mystic" and also an "armchair philosopher". There are days when I just want to hug trees and there are days when I want to discuss the ontological significance OF the trees.

Edited June 16, 2005 by AletheiaRivers

[Cynthia]

Aletheia - right there with ya sistah.

 

Sterrette - I think your post got lost in the shuffle - I didn't see it before my next one.

 

"I think that the belief among non-Christian progressives that Christianity is inconsistent with progressivness is, in large part, a reaction to their having been told by non-progressive Christians that that progressiveness is inconsistent with Christianity. It has been my observation that this is the case with Christianity and science. I grew up in West Texas. I know from first hand experience that many Christians believe that a scientific viewpoint is inconsistent with Christian faith. While I have always had deep religious beliefs, I was also drawn to science. It was only when I got a physics teaching job at church related college that I was able to resolve some of the tension that had been imposed on the relationship of science and Christianity by non-scientific Christians and non-Christian scientists.

 

I want to be clear that I mean a real scientific viewpoint, and not that pseudoscience where they try to show that evolution isn't real or that the existence of God is provable. I believe that evolution is real, the earth is about 5 billion years old, humans of one sort or another have been around about 1.5 million years, and that the existence of God is a matter of faith, not proof."

 

I agree! I like the idea (not mine!) that God gave us two works by which to know Him, the Bible and the World (explained by science). The more I learn about science (really any branch so far), the more I see God. I'm sorry for the people who are too threatened to see how much in science (phi, pi, string theory, quantum physics, etc.) make it soo clear that a conscious design is the obvious answer. That science helps us to understand God, not to deny God.