PaulS Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 6 minutes ago, FireDragon76 said: That's more or less been my experience as well. So why would Progressive Christians here feel more comfortable in a UU congregation if such a congregation regarded them as bible thumpers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireDragon76 Posted July 25, 2019 Author Share Posted July 25, 2019 9 minutes ago, PaulS said: So why would Progressive Christians here feel more comfortable in a UU congregation if such a congregation regarded them as bible thumpers? I'm suggesting many people here don't necessarily express the types of sentiments that would find a home in an actual mainline Protestant churches. Most mainline denominations in the US are still committed to theism, and even Trinitarianism, as part of their identity; it's in their liturgy and in their hymns, and even in some cases as part of their code of canon law. https://www.christianpost.com/news/episcopal-priest-defrocked-after-refusing-to-recant-muslim-faith.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulS Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 43 minutes ago, FireDragon76 said: I'm suggesting many people here don't necessarily express the types of sentiments that would find a home in an actual mainline Protestant churches. Most mainline denominations in the US are still committed to theism, and even Trinitarianism, as part of their identity; it's in their liturgy and in their hymns, and even in some cases as part of their code of canon law. https://www.christianpost.com/news/episcopal-priest-defrocked-after-refusing-to-recant-muslim-faith.html And I would agree - that is why this forum falls under the banner of Progressive Christianity and not mainline Protestantism, but I don't quite see how you've connected mainline Protestant church to PC and this forum, and then jumped from there to say most people on this PC forum would be more comfortable in a UU congregation. I think most people here (I'm sticking to most although I see you're now saying 'many') align themselves to the 8 Points of Progressive Christianity. Maybe that's not 'Christian' enough for some - is that what you are trying to get at by suggesting they'd be more comfortable in a UU congregation rather than a Progressive Christianity forum? Or do you just have issues in general with people calling themselves Progressive Christians? This is what I deducing from your comments above, but maybe I'm off the mark? Check out the link below for some familiarization with the 8 Points of PC: https://progressivechristianity.org/the-8-points/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireDragon76 Posted July 25, 2019 Author Share Posted July 25, 2019 5 hours ago, PaulS said: And I would agree - that is why this forum falls under the banner of Progressive Christianity and not mainline Protestantism, but I don't quite see how you've connected mainline Protestant church to PC and this forum, and then jumped from there to say most people on this PC forum would be more comfortable in a UU congregation. I think most people here (I'm sticking to most although I see you're now saying 'many') align themselves to the 8 Points of Progressive Christianity. Maybe that's not 'Christian' enough for some - is that what you are trying to get at by suggesting they'd be more comfortable in a UU congregation rather than a Progressive Christianity forum? Or do you just have issues in general with people calling themselves Progressive Christians? This is what I deducing from your comments above, but maybe I'm off the mark? Check out the link below for some familiarization with the 8 Points of PC: https://progressivechristianity.org/the-8-points/ Frankly, the eight points sound more like Unitarianism than Christianity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thormas Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 2 hours ago, FireDragon76 said: Frankly, the eight points sound more like Unitarianism than Christianity. I'm not familiar with Unitarianism but, still, the 8 points definitely are Christian, albeit enlightened, progressive Christian. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireDragon76 Posted July 25, 2019 Author Share Posted July 25, 2019 (edited) 3 hours ago, thormas said: I'm not familiar with Unitarianism but, still, the 8 points definitely are Christian, albeit enlightened, progressive Christian. I'm familiar with the notion of "Progressive Christianity" from following the Progressive Christian channel on Patheos. The ethos of the 8 points seems more like new age sentiments, in comparison. There's insufficient explanation of the connection to Jesus of Nazareth or what he taught. Edited July 25, 2019 by FireDragon76 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thormas Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 1 hour ago, FireDragon76 said: I'm familiar with the notion of "Progressive Christianity" from following the Progressive Christian channel on Patheos. The ethos of the 8 points seems more like new age sentiments, in comparison. There's insufficient explanation of the connection to Jesus of Nazareth or what he taught. Never seen that channel but PC is well spelled out in the points and #1 & 2 go to Jesus - with both mentioning the 'teachings' of Jesus and #2 correctly stating that the Way is many (yet one). Any detailed connection would seem to be up to the individual or his community. To me, this is a statement of philosophy, correct? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireDragon76 Posted July 26, 2019 Author Share Posted July 26, 2019 (edited) 14 hours ago, thormas said: Never seen that channel but PC is well spelled out in the points and #1 & 2 go to Jesus - with both mentioning the 'teachings' of Jesus and #2 correctly stating that the Way is many (yet one). Any detailed connection would seem to be up to the individual or his community. To me, this is a statement of philosophy, correct? What does "the Way is many and yet one" mean? This sort of thing is very vague, and also not demonstrated very well by real life experience. Jesus believed in the Hebrew God. How exactly does atheism fit in with that? I am not saying the Christian Church shouldn't welcome everybody, but Christians have a right to identify their own religion as theistic, and it's arguably intellectually dishonest to think otherwise. Prayer and communion with a personal God has been a consistent aspect of Christian practice since the beginning. A radical reinterpretation of Christian faith along New Age or Eastern religious lines begs the question of why be Christian at all? As Thich Nhat Hanh has demonstrated, one can be committed to a religion like Buddhism and still appreciate Jesus' teachings without committing oneself to a Christian identity. Edited July 26, 2019 by FireDragon76 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thormas Posted July 26, 2019 Share Posted July 26, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, FireDragon76 said: What does "the Way is many and yet one" mean? This sort of thing is very vague, and also not demonstrated very well by real life experience. Jesus believed in the Hebrew God. How exactly does atheism fit in with that? I am not saying the Christian Church shouldn't welcome everybody, but Christians have a right to identify their own religion as theistic, and it's arguably intellectually dishonest to think otherwise. Prayer and communion with a personal God has been a consistent aspect of Christian practice since the beginning. A radical reinterpretation of Christian faith along New Age or Eastern religious lines begs the question of why be Christian at all? As Thich Nhat Hanh has demonstrated, one can be committed to a religion like Buddhism and still appreciate Jesus' teachings without committing oneself to a Christian identity. There is only one Way to God or to the One or to 'Abundant Life': Jesus is the embodiment of that way, recognized and accepted as the Way by Christians but the same Way is found in other traditions and even in 'secular' life. Thus there is one Way but many expressions of it (at least to the eye). So, not so vague and very well demonstrated in real life. I agree that Jesus believed in the God known as the God of Israel and, it seems to me, that if one 'accepts' or believes in the historical Jesus and the Jesus of faith, then, logically one (should, must?) encompasses God. That is why I have 'discussions' at times with Atheist Christians who seem to accept Jesus, desire to live in Christian community but do not accept God. But, then again, I know some of my best friends, as atheists, are among the best people I have known; they are better or fuller embodiments of what God is (i.e. Love) that many Christians who profess God (think Trump along with many others who identify as Christian). After all, it is not the one who says, "Lord, Lord" - it is the one who does the will of God and is the love of God in the world. Christians do have a right to profess and live in God but, as this and other sites demonstrate, many have moved from a traditional theistic understanding because it no longer resonates in their lives and experiences. A theism model is not the only way to understand the God of Israel. I agree about prayer and communion but, of course, it depends on how one understands prayer and communion. How many public 'servants' take prayerful stances and state they are part of a community of others in God - yet live and act in the world as if there is no God? Anyone, in their life search, is free, and it is good, to explore their own faith and, if helpful, look to other traditions or secular society to better understand 'everything' that is important in that life. I do allow that the interpretation of some bring them to a belief that they call Christian but it can be questioned by others, if it is truly Christian. However, this entire enterprise must be done with the utmost care/love so it is not a will to power for either side. Therefore, it can be valid, again with care, to pose the question: why be Christian or is this really Christian? As an example, I question much of what passes for Christianity in conservative circles but I also recognize that my Catholic upbringing in the later 50s and 60s was probably conservative and we and many like us tried to be and were good people - and that is what matters in the world, is it not? Edited July 26, 2019 by thormas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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