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PaulS

The Purpose of Life

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An elegant article which helps explain why I see so much more to life without feeling the need to believe in a traditional Christian 'God' as determined by the human mind.

https://designluck.com/the-purpose-of-life/

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This is not a purpose:

This just is.

We dress ourselves in the illusion pf purpose.

The human mind is determined by its environment … past and present.

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13 hours ago, PaulS said:

An elegant article which helps explain why I see so much more to life without feeling the need to believe in a traditional Christian 'God' as determined by the human mind.

https://designluck.com/the-purpose-of-life/

I totally agree that "All we know is that it’s here, and the only way to find out is by spreading its brightness."

And the author is correct when he states "ultimately, we don’t know." Our "light may be so infinitely small as to not be of consequence, and we may not be the only carriers of it in the Universe, and it may not even mean what we think it means — all of these could be true." But it could also be true that we are consequential, that we are one of the carriers of the Universe and it is what we think/believe it means.

There is not much difference between the good atheist and the good Christian (or religious person). The difference is what we believe could or could not be.........true!

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17 hours ago, PaulS said:

An elegant article which helps explain why I see so much more to life without feeling the need to believe in a traditional Christian 'God' as determined by the human mind.

https://designluck.com/the-purpose-of-life/

You know, given the huge percentage that is dark energy and dark matter, perhaps that is where God resides or what God is (!!!!) and, thus where heaven is located. Are we close to scientific proof or, since science is not in the proof business, a viable theory?

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5 hours ago, thormas said:

You know, given the huge percentage that is dark energy and dark matter, perhaps that is where God resides or what God is (!!!!) and, thus where heaven is located. Are we close to scientific proof or, since science is not in the proof business, a viable theory?

Possibly, or we could be raising the time honoured practice of God-of-the-gaps.

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On ‎1‎/‎24‎/‎2019 at 11:03 AM, romansh said:

This is not a purpose:

This just is.

We dress ourselves in the illusion pf purpose.

The human mind is determined by its environment … past and present.

I consider it purpose in the sense that I am part of what simply 'is'.  Yes it just is, but my 'purpose' is to simply be part of it and ride the experience.

It doesn't 'drive me' per se, but because I am, I will make the most of being.

I agree the human mind is determined by its environment - but for all intents and purposes I am alive and experiencing life.  May as well enjoy it.

 

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13 hours ago, PaulS said:

Possibly, or we could be raising the time honoured practice of God-of-the-gaps.

You do know I'm kidding, although I allow that some might actually go to the dark side for answers.

 

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42 minutes ago, thormas said:

You do know I'm kidding, although I allow that some might actually go to the dark side for answers.

 

No, I didn't know you were kidding.  Not sure why you would be - I consider it a possibility too, although minute.  Nonetheless, the unknown is the unknown.

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1 hour ago, PaulS said:

No, I didn't know you were kidding.  Not sure why you would be - I consider it a possibility too, although minute.  Nonetheless, the unknown is the unknown.

I kid because, for me, to seriously suggest God is or is in the Dark matter or energy is a more modern, albeit a more imaginative take on the theistic God in his Kingdom, above and beyond us all.

I don't consider it a possibility: for me God is not energy or matter, dark or light, God is the very possibility, the ontological priority that there is matter and energy at all.

Dark matter and energy is interesting though and the object of science - maybe some day we will know more.

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8 hours ago, thormas said:

I kid because, for me, to seriously suggest God is or is in the Dark matter or energy is a more modern, albeit a more imaginative take on the theistic God in his Kingdom, above and beyond us all.

I don't consider it a possibility: for me God is not energy or matter, dark or light, God is the very possibility, the ontological priority that there is matter and energy at all.

Dark matter and energy is interesting though and the object of science - maybe some day we will know more.

I just like to remain open-minded about things we don't understand, and dark matter is one of them.  Perhaps it is unlikely, but I can't say I consider something we don't understand not to be a possibility about something we don't understand.

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I get that and it depends on one's 'definition' of God. 

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On ‎1‎/‎25‎/‎2019 at 1:14 AM, PaulS said:

I consider it purpose in the sense that I am part of what simply 'is'.

How many atoms does it take to be a part of what simply is? It's like divine (on the other thread} … if everything is divine, then there is no separation. 

again Campbell's quote"

  1. ... But the ultimate mystical goal is to be united with one's god. With that, duality is transcended and forms disappear. There is nobody there, no god, no you. Your mind, going past all concepts, has dissolved in identification with ground of your own being, because that to which the metaphorical image of your god refers to the ultimate mystery of your own being, which is the mystery of the being of the world as well.

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The great paradox: we are of being, we participate in being but we are not Being or we are not the fullness of Being. 

This is also the paradox of the divine and the human: there is and is not separation. Of course, some of don't believe everything is divine but this again points to participation (so no separation) but not the fullness of divinity (so separation). 

Even Campbell is stating that duality must be transcended and the one (the mind) dissolves in identification with the other or the fullness (the ground of your own being). 

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8 hours ago, romansh said:

How many atoms does it take to be a part of what simply is? It's like divine (on the other thread} … if everything is divine, then there is no separation. 

again Campbell's quote"

  1. ... But the ultimate mystical goal is to be united with one's god. With that, duality is transcended and forms disappear. There is nobody there, no god, no you. Your mind, going past all concepts, has dissolved in identification with ground of your own being, because that to which the metaphorical image of your god refers to the ultimate mystery of your own being, which is the mystery of the being of the world as well.

I guess just one, because without an atom one can't be at all?  I'm not sure what you're saying about divine - I do think everything is divine and there is no separation.

I must admit I don't quite understand why you're quoting Campbell.  I think we are all one and that the term God is simply used to represent that one-ness.  Obviously other people don't see the term God in that sense.

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On 1/26/2019 at 4:46 PM, romansh said:

How many atoms does it take to be a part of what simply is? It's like divine (on the other thread} … if everything is divine, then there is no separation. 

again Campbell's quote"

  1. ... But the ultimate mystical goal is to be united with one's god. With that, duality is transcended and forms disappear. There is nobody there, no god, no you. Your mind, going past all concepts, has dissolved in identification with ground of your own being, because that to which the metaphorical image of your god refers to the ultimate mystery of your own being, which is the mystery of the being of the world as well.

That seems to me to be a pretty good definition of the Kingdom/Heaven which is present now. 

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6 minutes ago, JosephM said:

That seems to me to be a pretty good definition of the Kingdom/Heaven which is present now. 

I get what you mean Joseph, while I don't claim to be in this Kingdom or Heaven, just understanding the lack of separation in existence allows me not to worry about being (or not) in this Kingdom or Heaven. Which I can't help but think is the point.

 

15 hours ago, PaulS said:

I guess just one, because without an atom one can't be at all?  I'm not sure what you're saying about divine - I do think everything is divine and there is no separation.

In some ways it is not relevant Paul. (Divine and Campbell), The point I am trying to make is … an atom might "be" and that it is affected by the universe (and vice versa). Does that one atom have a purpose? If the answer is yes then the concept of purpose is muddled, and in the same way if all is divine then that concept becomes meaningless.  And at the point … your mind has gone beyond all concepts ...

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3 hours ago, romansh said:

In some ways it is not relevant Paul. (Divine and Campbell), The point I am trying to make is … an atom might "be" and that it is affected by the universe (and vice versa). Does that one atom have a purpose? If the answer is yes then the concept of purpose is muddled, and in the same way if all is divine then that concept becomes meaningless.  And at the point … your mind has gone beyond all concepts ...

I think we are on the same page.  I use the word 'purpose' to simply describe my 'existence'.  The fact that I exist is my purpose.  There is nothing special about 'the Divine' it's just another word to explain our oneness and existence.  I understand if one uses the term purpose to define some sort of 'drive' in life, some sort of reason, then that indicates something 'causing' that.  But I think what I'm saying is 'my reason is that there is no reason'.  The oneness is simply our existence and there isn't anything outside of that.  Does that make any sense?

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4 hours ago, JosephM said:

That seems to me to be a pretty good definition of the Kingdom/Heaven which is present now. 

I think so too.  And I also agree with Rom that whether we call it a kingdom or not, the lack of separation in our existence means it exists whether one wants to view it as a kingdom or whether one simply wants to view it as the reality of our existence.  But I do think it is different to the impending Kingdom that Jesus was warning people was imminent and the need for them to repent before it was too late.  In the Kingdom you, Rom & I seem to be referring to, there is no 'too late'.

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On 1/27/2019 at 9:12 PM, PaulS said:

I think so too.  And I also agree with Rom that whether we call it a kingdom or not, the lack of separation in our existence means it exists whether one wants to view it as a kingdom or whether one simply wants to view it as the reality of our existence.  But I do think it is different to the impending Kingdom that Jesus was warning people was imminent and the need for them to repent before it was too late.  In the Kingdom you, Rom & I seem to be referring to, there is no 'too late'.

I would agree there is no too late. Yet i would disagree that it is different to what Jesus was referring to. There is only one and i seem to think that the writers have over time put a twist on exactly what was said as those who make religions out of words often do. At least that is my view .

Joseph

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On ‎1‎/‎27‎/‎2019 at 6:12 PM, PaulS said:

there is no 'too late'.

It's a form of acceptance … understanding it could not be otherwise. Some will get it others won't … c'est la vie

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12 hours ago, romansh said:

It's a form of acceptance … understanding it could not be otherwise. Some will get it others won't … c'est la vie

If some don't get it then it eventually it's too late for the some, so there is a 'too late?"

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23 hours ago, JosephM said:

I would agree there is no too late. Yet i would disagree that it is different to what Jesus was referring to. There is only one and i seem to think that the writers have over time put a twist on exactly what was said as those who make religions out of words often do. At least that is my view .

Joseph

That's a fair enough view Joseph, but I actually think it's the other way around - I think Jesus was preaching an imminent, physical Kingdom and when that hasn't occurred, writers over time have put a twist on exactly what was said and come up with this different Kingdom.  That certainly seems to be Erhman's scholarship on the matter (but he could be wrong too).  It does makes more sense to me though to think of Jesus going on a 3yr ministry in a pretty hard core nature, and a preparedness to die perhaps for his beliefs because he simply saw death as a very short term inconvenience before the Kingdom became ushered in and he (and many others) would imminently be restored.

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23 minutes ago, PaulS said:

That's a fair enough view Joseph, but I actually think it's the other way around - I think Jesus was preaching an imminent, physical Kingdom and when that hasn't occurred, writers over time have put a twist on exactly what was said and come up with this different Kingdom.  That certainly seems to be Erhman's scholarship on the matter (but he could be wrong too).  It does makes more sense to me though to think of Jesus going on a 3yr ministry in a pretty hard core nature, and a preparedness to die perhaps for his beliefs because he simply saw death as a very short term inconvenience before the Kingdom became ushered in and he (and many others) would imminently be restored.

The physical kingdom was manifest at Pentecost.

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2 minutes ago, Burl said:

The physical kingdom was manifest at Pentecost.

Again, I don't think that was the version of the Kingdom that Jesus was preaching but rather it became a later interpretation of his words.

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52 minutes ago, PaulS said:

That's a fair enough view Joseph, but I actually think it's the other way around - I think Jesus was preaching an imminent, physical Kingdom and when that hasn't occurred, writers over time have put a twist on exactly what was said and come up with this different Kingdom.  That certainly seems to be Erhman's scholarship on the matter (but he could be wrong too).  It does makes more sense to me though to think of Jesus going on a 3yr ministry in a pretty hard core nature, and a preparedness to die perhaps for his beliefs because he simply saw death as a very short term inconvenience before the Kingdom became ushered in and he (and many others) would imminently be restored.

Well, i won't argue with the scholars such as Erhman but it seems to me, he holds that view  because his intellectualism (the theory that knowledge is wholly or mainly derived from pure reason; rationalism) has clouded his spiritual viewing which is pretty understandable to me when one puts more weight on study than meditation.  🙂

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