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apexcone

My evolving journey

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1 hour ago, romansh said:

It is not a presentation to me being non-religious! And I am agnostically inclined. In what way will this be in anyway edifying to full blown atheists?

I accept that it is not for you but you are only one 'non-religious' person.

1 hour ago, romansh said:

My original point way it was for those who have lost their faith (religion) - ie no longer Anglican, CoE, Evangelical, fundamental whatever.

 So these people are non-religious and it is for them (also). It may or may not speak to them but it doesn't speak to you, who self-defines as an agnostic. I get that.

 

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3 minutes ago, thormas said:

I accept that it is not for you but you are only one 'non-religious' person.

You did not answer my question. 

 

5 minutes ago, thormas said:

 So these people are non-religious and it is for them (also)

Are these people not religious? Are you speaking for them?  Sauce for the goose - so to speak. Are you suggesting you can't be religious without the dogma associated with traditional positions?

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4 minutes ago, apexcone said:

my first impression of your comments is they rather judgemental

Funny that ... my wife and I were talking about being judgemental this very morning. And for a change the comment was not directed at me.

It is OK to be judgemental ... but can I suggest don't be hard on yourself.

 

ps ... saying it is OK to be judgemental is itself not a judgement, but a recognition you could not have felt otherwise given the situation.

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I misread your post a little bit, sorry.

So what did you feel as being judgemental, as a matter of interest?

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Apologies I should have used the word "if one" rather than your.

It's interesting how quick misunderstanding takes place on forums. 

I think that there are many people out there who have their faith in their faith/beliefs, I think to some degree I was one of them. Christianity ends up being about believing the corporate message.  Once you start with the Bible as the infallible word of God, its difficult to disagree, because if I do, I'm not disagreeing with whoever I'm disagreeing with God. 

For me this is about allowing people to believe whatever they want. My question is: "is it working for you" Is it producing peace, joy and contentment"

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1 minute ago, apexcone said:

For me this is about allowing people to believe whatever they want. My question is: "is it working for you" Is it producing peace, joy and contentment"

People will believe what they believe ... they have no [free] choice in their beliefs. Is discussing people's beliefs and asking questions about what might seem as incoherence unreasonable? Or are they simply looking for reinforcement for their beliefs?  

Peace, joy and contentment? If that is what one is after, then fine. Why not chase after understanding? Why chase after anything?

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4 minutes ago, romansh said:

People will believe what they believe ... they have no [free] choice in their beliefs. Is discussing people's beliefs and asking questions about what might seem as incoherence unreasonable? Or are they simply looking for reinforcement for their beliefs?  

Peace, joy and contentment? If that is what one is after, then fine. Why not chase after understanding? Why chase after anything?

Im not so sure that having understanding brings internal satisfaction. If it did then everyone who had understanding/knowledge would be in a good place, but as we both know that is not the case. My conviction is that man has an inner longing to find something that for most is missing in their lives, we all know that materialism & the intellect cant fill that void 

Edited by apexcone

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37 minutes ago, apexcone said:

Im not so sure that having understanding brings internal satisfaction. If it did then everyone who had understanding/knowledge would be in a good place, but as we both know that is not the case. My conviction is that man has an inner longing to find something that for most is missing in their lives, we all know that materialism & the intellect cant fill that void 

Is that what it is about internal, satisfaction; really?

I have a sense of awe ... not all the time. Materialism in the philosophical sense (rather than the social sense) does work for me. My intellect works for me.

Edited by romansh

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2 hours ago, romansh said:

You did not answer my question. 

I have no idea what would be edifying to you -  I am not an agnostic or an atheist. I do allow some agnostics might like some of what Spong has to say.

Are these people not religious? Are you speaking for them?  Sauce for the goose - so to speak. Are you suggesting you can't be religious without the dogma associated with traditional positions?

Many/some who no longer accept or participate in their religion, consider themselves and at times are seen by others as non-religious. Some consider themselves spiritual rather than religious. I am, by this definition, non-religious and, although I don't agree with Spong on everything, I liked this book. 

 

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1 hour ago, apexcone said:

Apologies I should have used the word "if one" rather than your.

It's interesting how quick misunderstanding takes place on forums. 

I think that there are many people out there who have their faith in their faith/beliefs, I think to some degree I was one of them. Christianity ends up being about believing the corporate message.  Once you start with the Bible as the infallible word of God, its difficult to disagree, because if I do, I'm not disagreeing with whoever I'm disagreeing with God. 

For me this is about allowing people to believe whatever they want. My question is: "is it working for you" Is it producing peace, joy and contentment"

Ok, but even the 'if one' seems too all encompassing. Also, I don't know what you mean by many "(having) their faith in their faith/beliefs." Some people don't consider their faith a mere system or something that pertains to a corporate message.

I too am all for people believing what they will. And the answer to your question would be yes - but mine is a rather progressive, panentheistic (non-religious) understanding of Christianity. 

 

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2 hours ago, romansh said:

People will believe what they believe ... they have no [free] choice in their beliefs. Is discussing people's beliefs and asking questions about what might seem as incoherence unreasonable? Or are they simply looking for reinforcement for their beliefs?  

Peace, joy and contentment? If that is what one is after, then fine. Why not chase after understanding? Why chase after anything?

Well, as discussed before, some of us have more faith in free choice. We have been here so no desire to go over it once again - just presenting another view.

Peace, joy, contentment are tied to (the continuing quest for) understanding (for me). 

Edited by thormas

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Don't stop at joy, peace and contentment.  Add curiosity, intuition, repentance, accuracy, self esteem, intelligence, charisma, longsuffering plus much, much more (order now!  Operators are standing by!).

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12 hours ago, Burl said:

Don't stop at joy, peace and contentment.  Add curiosity, intuition, repentance, accuracy, self esteem, intelligence, charisma, longsuffering plus much, much more (order now!  Operators are standing by!).

I do love humor, thanks.

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21 hours ago, thormas said:

Many/some who no longer accept or participate in their religion, consider themselves and at times are seen by others as non-religious. Some consider themselves spiritual rather than religious. I am, by this definition, non-religious and, although I don't agree with Spong on everything, I liked this book. 

synonyms for religious [the Gospel according to Google] devout, pious, reverent, godly, God-fearing, churchgoing, faithful, devoted, committed

 

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And in today's understanding we differentiate between religious and spiritual. But thanks for the list even though it is apropos to nothing in the conversation.

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OK you don't have faith? You don't revere Love?

 

Fair enough.

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2 hours ago, romansh said:

OK you don't have faith? You don't revere Love?

 

Fair enough.

Obviously you freely chose to say that: wrong but free. 

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