romansh Posted February 9, 2020 Author Share Posted February 9, 2020 (edited) 25 minutes ago, thormas said: Are we still talking about 'why I am not a PC? Yes 25 minutes ago, thormas said: Continuing: not sure about PCs in general but I doubt the list you have included would self-identify or if they did and they wanted to actually participate in such a Christian site, one might assume they are repentant. But who knows. Do you have to self identify as a Progressive Christian to be welcomed on this site? 25 minutes ago, thormas said: However, if they did self-identify and were not repentant, it seems we could say they are not welcome until they set things right with their brother and sister - all their brothers and sisters - and then the gates of the site would swing open for he who was lost and has repented. Then it is not ALL 25 minutes ago, thormas said: Wouldn't Jesus say sin no more and to obey the 2 great commandments? And if one did the latter, then they would no longer be any of those things listed above because they would love their neighbor, i.e agape, i.e. compassionate concern which would rule out the above behaviors. Actually this is no idealized version of Jesus but what is presented is the kind of things he was known to have said and done (see Allison). And it was just explained how we would walk it. Ultimately it would be trying to change someone's behavior regardless of what tools you would use. To use Joseph's term our idealized concept of Jesus would be accepting of these people. Not necessarily apathetic to what they have done. 25 minutes ago, thormas said: To proselytize is not the same a being the good Samaritan and helping. And yet I think I am helping while I try and explain my point of view and hope that you might share it. Edited February 9, 2020 by romansh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romansh Posted February 9, 2020 Author Share Posted February 9, 2020 4 minutes ago, thormas said: , for example there is something called a car, lots of things are called cars........until something is called a motorcycle. 8 minutes ago, thormas said: You lost me as it does seem to matter what one means by the use of the word God. So who is the arbiter of what me mean by God? Are Progressive Christians welcoming of other perspectives of God or not? Who is the arbiter of what can be considered, in the latest version, "God". My "rock" might happen to be a reflection of the universe. And you will find even the latest version of the points does not require any worship of rocks etc even God. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thormas Posted February 9, 2020 Share Posted February 9, 2020 (edited) I am speaking specifically about the new list and simply making a point about their acceptance. If we didn't know one way of another, they would be accepted, correct? It is All, including plants, but there are the 8 points, correct? It is not a bad thing to try to change the behavior of a child molester (actually it is the opposite) just as Jesus suggested a change in behavior for the rich man and I don't think we ever heard from him again. You may think your preaching is helping (and it might be) but bandaging a wound is demonstrably helping. Edited February 9, 2020 by thormas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thormas Posted February 9, 2020 Share Posted February 9, 2020 See I was right a car is a car is a car until it is not. A motorcycle with a competent rider would not have had that accident. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romansh Posted February 9, 2020 Author Share Posted February 9, 2020 1 minute ago, thormas said: See I was right a car is a car is a car until it is not. A motorcycle with a competent rider would not have had that accident. what do you think my point was? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thormas Posted February 9, 2020 Share Posted February 9, 2020 No need for an arbiter. If one has a 'club' called PC and they have some 'definition' of God or simply their 8 points, then one, as an adult, is free to decide if they want in or not. Isn't it true that PC is welcoming but one must be in agreement with the 8 points to enter the specific PC area? Not worship in any traditional sense but the Jesus/Sacred connection is in play for PCs and you were find with that, correct? That's it for a bit as I have to get back to life............ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romansh Posted February 9, 2020 Author Share Posted February 9, 2020 19 minutes ago, thormas said: If one has a 'club' called PC and they have some 'definition' of God or simply their 8 points But there appears to be an arbiter … some of the club directors by the looks of it. 21 minutes ago, thormas said: Isn't it true that PC is welcoming I would say up to a point. I have seen an atheist welcomed that what I interpreted as an warning. The replies to Billmc's post gave me pause for thought. 24 minutes ago, thormas said: Not worship in any traditional sense In what non traditional sense did you mean? More flexibility? 28 minutes ago, thormas said: Jesus/Sacred connection is in play for PCs and you were find(e?) with that, correct? No I was not personally fine with that. Better warn life, Thormas is on the loose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thormas Posted February 9, 2020 Share Posted February 9, 2020 (edited) I am no longer sure of your position. You are a member and contributor to PC but by your own admission you don't agree with the 8 Points, do not identify as a Christian and don't believe in God. All this is more than fine and you are a member, included in the ALL on the site and the ALL that PC in general welcomes. So............you're not part of those specific discussions that those who identify as Christian and progressive and who are accepting of the 8 Points participate in if they so desire but you also don't share their 'religious/spiritual' interests that this section is specifically concerned with. You can still see the conversations and you can I assume start a similar thread in the Debate section so, again, what is the issue? Your version is fine for a progressive thinker but it seems to not pertain or really speak to progressives who are Christians and that is, in significant way, exactly what this site and the main organization is about. As to worship, I do not worship in any traditional way but I consider my continuing study, participation in and living the Way of Jesus to be the true meaning of worship. Finally you were not fine with Jesus/Sacred and that makes the point. Note: I realized I have to go back and recheck your version and make sure I'm not mixing them with your version of the 8 commandments PS I can't read or make sense of your 2nd response in your last thread. Edited February 9, 2020 by thormas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JosephM Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 (edited) 12 hours ago, romansh said: Having said, I see Progressive Christianity as a more stable stepping stone than traditional Christianity. I would agree with that. It is in my view a stepping stone. Some may even bypass it entirely. (point 2) Edited February 10, 2020 by JosephM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulS Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 I think it should be noted also, that the 8 Points this forum refers to, is followed by a note by the TCPC: Notes: We’ve heard you and in our many conversations with our readership, Progressive Christian pastors, theologians, scholars, visionaries, and in our observations and studies, we have co-created this updated version of our 8 Points of Progressive Christianity. Progressive Christianity is inherently always evolving and progressing. Please take these lightly but seriously. They are not dogma, they are simply a starting point to establish conversations and a foundation of values and beliefs that we have observed Progressive Christians generally share. It’s ok if you don’t agree with all the words or all the parts. We support your authentic path. You can use these in your faith communities and with family and friends to talk about what it means to you to be a Progressive Christian in today’s world. Here is to always progressing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JosephM Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 5 hours ago, PaulS said: I think it should be noted also, that the 8 Points this forum refers to, is followed by a note by the TCPC: Notes: We’ve heard you and in our many conversations with our readership, Progressive Christian pastors, theologians, scholars, visionaries, and in our observations and studies, we have co-created this updated version of our 8 Points of Progressive Christianity. Progressive Christianity is inherently always evolving and progressing. Please take these lightly but seriously. They are not dogma, they are simply a starting point to establish conversations and a foundation of values and beliefs that we have observed Progressive Christians generally share. It’s ok if you don’t agree with all the words or all the parts. We support your authentic path. You can use these in your faith communities and with family and friends to talk about what it means to you to be a Progressive Christian in today’s world. Here is to always progressing! Thanks Paul, I missed that note when reading them. Thanks for posting as it needs to be said for proper context. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romansh Posted February 10, 2020 Author Share Posted February 10, 2020 7 hours ago, PaulS said: It’s ok if you don’t agree with all the words or all the parts. We support your authentic path. Reminds me of Campbell: Moyers Like all heroes, the Buddha does not show you the truth itself, he shows you the way to the truth. Campbell But it’s got to be your way, not his 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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