The UFO Conspiracy - Truth: "Aliens" are Fallen Angels

[Spiritfilled]

Some Christians, including myself, believe that aliens are some of the fallen angels.

The UFO Conspiracy - Truth: "Aliens" are Fallen Angels

Senior bibliographer from the Library of Congress, Miss Lynn E. Catoe wrote the government document, UFOs AND RELATED SUBJECTS: An Annotated Bibliography, and summarizes her findings. She wrote, "A large part of the available UFO literature is closely linked with mysticism and the metaphysical. It deals with subjects like mental telepathy, automatic writing and invisible entities as well as phenomenon like poltergeist manifestation and possession. Many of the UFO reports now being published in the popular press recount alleged incidents that are strikingly similar to demonic possession and psychic phenomena that have long been known to theologians and parapsychologists."

We know them by their works:

Mathew 7:16. You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thorn bushes or figs from thistles?

Because it is sometimes so unbelievable, the truth escapes being known. Heraclitus (500 B.C.)

[thormas]

Wow, just Wow!

[Burl]

Spiritfilled, check into the work of bible scholar Michael Heiser, Ph.D.  He sorts out these things with considerable academic rigor.  Heiser is the scholar-in-residence for Logos bible software.

You can find many speeches and interviews with Heiser on the YouTube channel General Han Solo.  He goes into great depth on these subjects.

[romansh]

Here is a quote from Billy Graham in his book Angels first published in 1975

Quote

I do not believe in angels because someone has told me about a dramatic visitation from an angel, impressive as such rare testimonies may be. I do not believe in angels because UFOs are astonishingly angel-like in some of their reported appearances. I do not believe in angels because ESP experts are making the realm of the spirit world seem more and more plausible. I do not believe in angels because of the sudden worldwide emphasis on the reality of Satan and demons. I do not believe in angels because I have ever seen one--because I haven't. I believe in angels because the Bible says there are angels; and I believe the Bible to be the true Word of God.

Apparently Graham has more faith than some. Here is my take on Graham's book.

But yes, wow indeed.

[thormas]

And a Wow to Billy too but like the separation from UFOs , Satan and demons. But politely disagree with his take on the Bible but we'll leave it there rather than explore what else must be believed if one believes the Bible to be the true Word of God.

[Burl]

12 hours ago, thormas said:

And a Wow to Billy too but like the separation from UFOs , Satan and demons. But politely disagree with his take on the Bible but we'll leave it there rather than explore what else must be believed if one believes the Bible to be the true Word of God.

The Bible never claims to be the true word of God.  It does claim that all of Scripture (which includes more than just the Bible) is useful in the teaching of righteousness (2 Timothy).

[romansh]

1 hour ago, Burl said:

The Bible never claims to be the true word of God.  It does claim that all of Scripture (which includes more than just the Bible) is useful in the teaching of righteousness (2 Timothy).

But people and some religions do.

I am not going to argue with you about this, but there are verses in the Bible that seem to contradict you here.

https://bible.knowing-jesus.com/topics/God~s-Word-Is-True

[thormas]

On 10/29/2017 at 12:00 PM, romansh said:

But people and some religions do.

I am not going to argue with you about this, but there are verses in the Bible that seem to contradict you here.

https://bible.knowing-jesus.com/topics/God~s-Word-Is-True

Many/ most of the NT citations can't be speaking about themselves, i.e. the NT, because the canon was not yet set: they had no way of knowing there would be and/or that their work would be included in a 'Christian Scripture / Bible.' In addition, Paul and Mark with their apocalyptic beliefs would never have expected such a thing as a canon or a sacred scripture of Jesus to be needed. And, again, the others - no way to expect it (canon or their inclusion) especially with the many other 'christianities' in the decades of the first and early second C of the common era. 

I read these NT citations as beliefs/statements about Jesus speaking the truth about God. One would think the writers weren't lying but it seems that it was obvious to them, for example Matthew and Luke, that they were 'diverging' from Mark and perhaps the other common source (Q) and adding additional or ever different information. They don't seem to be making a statement on the Bible, as commonly defined, as the true word of God. 

Same might be said of the OT citations but I have less experience and interest in the OT. When were 'books' written, when was the Jewish 'canon' set?

Edited October 30, 2017 by thormas

[thormas]

On 10/29/2017 at 10:15 AM, Burl said:

The Bible never claims to be the true word of God.  It does claim that all of Scripture (which includes more than just the Bible) is useful in the teaching of righteousness (2 Timothy).

Agree with Rom's first sentence: some people do and Billy, by his own words, is one of them.

[Burl]

3 minutes ago, thormas said:

Agree with Rom's first sentence: some people do and Billy, by his own words, is one of them.

 

3 minutes ago, thormas said:

Agree with Rom's first sentence: some people do and Billy, by his own words, is one of them.

Yes, some people hold non-scriptural beliefs about the Bible.  Many people also identify quotes from Poor Richard's Almanac as Scripture.  All but one of Rom's litany of verses was irrelevant to my statement, but it is always rewarding to read about Rom getting serious about Scripture so I let that slide.

[thormas]

1 hour ago, Burl said:

 

Yes, some people hold non-scriptural beliefs about the Bible.  Many people also identify quotes from Poor Richard's Almanac as Scripture.  All but one of Rom's litany of verses was irrelevant to my statement, but it is always rewarding to read about Rom getting serious about Scripture so I let that slide.

Agree on the non-scriptural statement, just wanted to clarify. Thanks.

[tariki]

16 minutes ago, thormas said:

Agree on the non-scriptural statement, just wanted to clarify. Thanks.

My experience was that there was (and is) no clarity. What is "scriptual" to one is "non-scriptual" to another. The arguments, claims, quotes and counter quotes of all the various believers have been, are, and will be, unending. Such is the Bible. 

[Burl]

I'm not dismissing Spiritfilled's comment.  There is a metric crap-ton of idiocy relating aliens and fallen angels, but there is also genuine scholarship.  Mostly by Heiser, who is the most thorough and accessible.

The usual Scriptural quote is centered on Genesis 6:4 and the pseudopigraphal 2 Enoch, which is only in the Coptic Canon but is referenced as Scripture in the Western bible. 

In any case, Scripture mentions around a dozen different spiritual beings and they occur in all ancient literature.  No excuse for not keeping an open mind on the subject.

 

[thormas]

3 hours ago, Burl said:

I'm not dismissing Spiritfilled's comment.  There is a metric crap-ton of idiocy relating aliens and fallen angels, but there is also genuine scholarship.  Mostly by Heiser, who is the most thorough and accessible.

The usual Scriptural quote is centered on Genesis 6:4 and the pseudopigraphal 2 Enoch, which is only in the Coptic Canon but is referenced as Scripture in the Western bible. 

In any case, Scripture mentions around a dozen different spiritual beings and they occur in all ancient literature.  No excuse for not keeping an open mind on the subject.

 

But is that accepting a literal reading? 

[Burl]

18 minutes ago, thormas said:

But is that accepting a literal reading? 

Is accepting what accepting a literal reading?  In Genesis 6:4, there are elohim on earth mating with human women and creating the giants.  The term elohim may denote any supernatural being per Heiser, but not necessarily angels.

The literality of Heiser's Hebrew reading is stronger than the common English translation of that verse as "Sons of God".  English is a good starting place but English Bible is by definition not literal.  Literality demands the original languages. 

[thormas]

21 minutes ago, Burl said:

Is accepting what accepting a literal reading?  In Genesis 6:4, there are elohim on earth mating with human women and creating the giants.  The term elohim may denote any supernatural being per Heiser, but not necessarily angels.

The literality of Heiser's Hebrew reading is stronger than the common English translation of that verse as "Sons of God".  English is a good starting place but English Bible is by definition not literal.  Literality demands the original languages. 

Simply, wondering if you are accepting the mere 'mention' of the dozen different spiritual beings in the bible or, given the comment on open minds on the subject, possibly accepting the spiritual beings literally? I get that elohim might denote supernatural beings (angels or otherwise) but is this poetry or something else? 

I get the point on the Hebrew being the original language but translations into other languages are also accepted 'literally." So sons of god or supernatural beings: taken as poetry or 'literally?"

[Burl]

No, it's not poetry.  There has been extensive archeological evidence of giants uncovered since C18.  Search for "giant skeletons" on google and especially google images.  A good Halloween project!

The existence of supernatural beings in every culture is evidence that this is not only a Judeo-Christian construct.  Hindu avatars, Buddhist bodhisatvas, African loa, ghosts and the many polytheistic religions.  

Fallen angels are not equivalent to aliens.  We have indisputable testimony from trained observers about aliens.  Angels, fallen or otherwise, have not aquired that level of testimony yet.

[thormas]

1 hour ago, Burl said:

No, it's not poetry.  There has been extensive archeological evidence of giants uncovered since C18.  Search for "giant skeletons" on google and especially google images.  A good Halloween project!

The existence of supernatural beings in every culture is evidence that this is not only a Judeo-Christian construct.  Hindu avatars, Buddhist bodhisatvas, African loa, ghosts and the many polytheistic religions.  

Fallen angels are not equivalent to aliens.  We have indisputable testimony from trained observers about aliens.  Angels, fallen or otherwise, have not aquired that level of testimony yet.

I know it's not peculiar to the Judeo-Christian scriptures...........and I' don't equate angels, fallen or otherwise, to aliens. Still...........????

Not sure about the indisputable testimony on aliens.  But since it is Halloween, I will check the aliens and the giants, then put on my Batman suit and go trick or treating - given the subject, probably the former :+}

 

[thormas]

Ok, I can return to normal life: National Geographic reported the photos were a hoax and those who ran it admitted they were taken in. Wondered why, if it were established fact, it wasn't reported everywhere, all the time and bumped Trump off the pages of the major papers and networks.

Now, onto to aliens but think I saw the movie(s).

[Spiritfilled]

"Annunaki in the Bible Codes- Genesis 25:32"

"Also known as Jedi, or Nephilim"

"Who were the Annunaki? They were the Watchers, Watchmen assigned to earth to watch over Yahweh's Creation in the Garden of Eden and Earth . They were created by God as perfect Angels. These Watchers rebelled against God and their assignment and a mutiny followed as they abandoned their mission to oversee humans and began to defile the women of the earth by having offspring with them. This led to a giant defect in the DNA of the offspring and an eventual almost complete contamination of the human DNA. By the time Yahweh destroyed the world with a flood because of this contamination, only one family on earth was left with pure human DNA. But even after the flood, the Watchers kept revolting and even more were punished and cast out of heaven losing their first estate and habitation, as they continued to defile women and human DNA (Genesis 6:4) This hybridization and corruption of the human DNA is still very much a part of our world although the giant defect has been corrected and most hybridization goes undetected. Why is the church silent on UFOs, Aliens, abductions, implantations, and forced breedings?"

Sherry Shriner

Genesis 6:4. There were giants on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown.

NKJV Scholastic Commentary: The sons of God refer to a different group from either the men or their daughters. The phrase clearly means "angels." Job 1:6 presents Satan and his angels coming into the presence of the LORD for an audience with His Majesty. Satan's angels are there called "the sons of God," with the suggestion that these angelic beings were ounce holy ones who served the Lord, but were now allied with the evil one. Genesis assumes the existence of the good angels of the Lord (see 3:24) and of Satan and his angels, it also assumes that the later are already fallen and under God's judgment (see 1:2). In 3:1, the serpent (Satan) was already as the father of lies (John 8:44). Here it appears that some of Satan's angels, spirit beings, took on human form (see 3:24) and, out of a perverted lust, seduced women. In response, God reserved these angels for special judgment (2 Pet 2:4; Jude 6) and cleansed the earth itself (with the Flood).

[thormas]

Ok, we're safe here too. I immediately discount reports from a group where all wear Guy Fawkes masks and I read about 'lots of evidence' but no examples of said evidence. And reports of great revelations but then still no revelations.

I allow for many possibilities in life, including 'alien' life but see no indisputable evidence..........so we're safe for the foreseeable future. But I do love Star Trek, so I remain open.

Again, if the 'evidence were out there' I think it too would bump Trump (please god) from the pages and news programs.

 

P.S. Sorry Scott, if one does not read the bible literally, then the idea of Watchmen in Eden makes even less sense - and then we have the contamination of the gene pool by giants having their way with the women of the earth?? But how did things fit? I mean a giant defect by giants - and people were smaller back in the day, and women even smaller (I mean how tall was Eve, maybe 4'6"?). And then God got pissed and killed everybody - the same Abba whose Word died for a sinful humanity? And what was with the women in Noah's family if the giants took a pass on them? Couldn't have been their choice since the giants did not ask permission? Also, if angels continued to defile earth women, shouldn't we have some larger than life, angelic like, humans around today? And who corrected the 'giant defect?"

The church is probably silent on all this stuff for the same reason it is silent on DC vs. Marvel.

 

Edited October 31, 2017 by thormas

[Spiritfilled]

U.F.O. and aliens are a worldwide phenomenon. With all the reports from such credible witnesses from high ranking Air Force officials, Air Force pilots, high ranking politicians, and airline control tower personnel, etc....it's hard not to believe in U.F.O.'s and aliens.

I consider this sighting to be some of the most compelling evidence of a U.F.O. with alien occupants on video.

2007 Turkey UFO Video - Kumburgaz UFO OVNI (Digital Master) High Quality version

At first, the videos were analyzed and made public by the SIRIUS UFO organization, directed by the researcher Haktan Akdogan. This case made big news in Turkey and in other countries as well. It also started a great debate between the official members of the Turkish scientific community. Specifically the NATIONAL COUNCIL FOR THE STUDY OF SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY (TUBITAK) got interested in analyzing the original footage, with the intention of determining that the video was nothing more than a hoax, gambling on the idea of scale models, toys, or CGI. The original tape was handed to the TUBITAK representatives on live TV in their own headquarters. Once the analysis was concluded, they gave an official report which can be summarized as such:

"The objects observed on the images have a structure made of a specific material and are definitely not any kind of CGI animation or in any means a type of special effects used for simulation in a studio or for video effects. So the conclusion of this report is that the observations are not a model, marquette, or a fraud." The official report ended with, "it's concluded that the objects observed have a physical structure and are made of materials that don't belong to any category of (airplanes, helicopters, meteors, Venus, Mars, satellites, artificial lights, Chinese lanterns, etc.) and that it mostly fits in the category of UFO's (Unidentified Flying Objects of unknown origin)".

Source: Analysis of the Kumburgaz, Turkey UFO Videos

Edited October 31, 2017 by Spiritfilled

[JosephM]

Spiritfilled, (Scott)

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