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tariki

Anyone for Jung?

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Just read. Jung at 74......"I console myself with the thought that only a fool expects wisdom".

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1 hour ago, tariki said:

Just read. Jung at 74......"I console myself with the thought that only a fool expects wisdom".

I guess i am currently a fool, :rolleyes: but i have a few more years til 74 to change my mind about expecting wisdom. :lol:

On second thought, perhaps wisdom is not something to expect but rather something to embrace?

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9 hours ago, JosephM said:

..........perhaps wisdom is not something to expect but rather something to embrace?

I think words often can't do justice to reality. They can lead us astray, thinking there is always a "thing" that corresponds to each and every word.

I remember some words of Thomas Merton, which another described as a "beautiful paradox"......

This wordless simplicity, in which the works of quiet and holy people speak humbly for themselves. How important that is in our day, when we are flooded with a tidal wave of meaningless words: and worse still when in the void of those words the sinister power of hatred and destruction is at work. The Shakers remain as witnesses to the fact that only humility keeps man in communion with truth, and first of all with his own inner truth. This one must know without knowing it, as they did. For as soon as a man becomes aware of "his truth" he lets go of it and embraces an illusion.

(from a letter to E.D.Andrews, an expert on the life and beliefs of the Shakers (or the United Society of Believers in Christ's Second Appearing). Andrews had sent Merton a copy of his book, Shaker Furniture, and Merton was responding to the gift)

"responding to the gift".......I think everything truly valuable is a gift, given not earned, realised not attained. It is the very fabric of Reality-as-is.

Neil Young said it another way in his song, "Love is a rose"....

Love is a rose
but you better not pick it
It only grows when it's on the vine.
A handful of thorns and
you'll know you've missed it
You lose your love
when you say the word "mine
".
 

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Back to Jung. Here is one of the illustrations from the biography I am reading, a painting by Paul Ranson, dated around 1890.

 

Christ and Buddha

 

The text of the book says that Jung recognised that all religions reveal God. "I could give none preference over the other"

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Right, Jung was a Freudian.  He later expanded on Freud and is now considered a neo-Freudian along with Adler, Erikson and Horney.  Jung was psychotherapeutic and he built on the Freudian principles of the symbolic/dream experience of subconscious thought, universal psychological drive states and defense mechanisms.

Jung was not a mystic and was empirical by the standards of his day.  He was a physician and psychotherapist concerned with curing psychatric conditions.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neo-Freudianism

Jordan B. Peterson has three interesting lectures on a Jungian deconstruction of Disney's "Pinnochio" in his maps of meaning course at the University of Toronto which are available free on YT.  I think it is lectures 3-6.

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4 hours ago, Burl said:

Right, Jung was a Freudian.  He later expanded on Freud and is now considered a neo-Freudian along with Adler, Erikson and Horney.  

Reading the biography, at one point Jung is recorded as saying that the last thing he wanted to do was create yet another "ism". "I am C G Jung, not a Jungian". 

So not a Jungian, let alone a Freudian! 

:)

P.S. I would recommend the biography to anyone interested in any progressive form of the Christian Faith. The chapter on "Jung and Christianity" is full of quotable quotes, drawn from Jung's published books and his letters to various theologians. 

 

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1 hour ago, tariki said:

The chapter on "Jung and Christianity" is full of quotable quotes, drawn from Jung's published books and his letters to various theologians. 

 

As this is a Christian Forum perhaps the place for a few of those quotes........

"The Christian symbol is a living being that carries the seeds of further development in itself.......although its foundations remain the same eternally Christianity must be interpreted anew in each aeon other wise it suffocates in traditionalism"

"What was once called the Holy Ghost/Spirit is an impelling force, creating wider consciousness and responsibility and thus enriched cognition."

"A metaphoric death and rebirth can be found by taking up our own cross of opposites and living them out as fully and individually as Jesus did his."

"Religion is a defense against religious experience"

 

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11 hours ago, Burl said:

 

Thanks Burl, food for thought there. Me being under "eastern" influence, I detect some sort of impasse within Jung's thought. Namely, that he often implies that the "individual few" ( elitist or what? ) must remain firmly within our Western cultural roots , while at the same time speaking of the universal human psyche. Though he often alludes to "eastern" ways he certainly appeared wary of such things as "emptiness", "suchness" and the like. 

The individual is very much alive and well within Pure Land symbolism, which ( to coin a phrase from the UK's own Jeremy Corbyn ) is, contrary to Jung, for the "many not the few". Again, on Facebook, among my friends and family, signs of true community emerging from the wasteland! Rather than looking towards the "individual few" maybe keep our eyes open  - or we may miss the on-going lessons and revelations of Reality-as-is.

This is not some dismissal of Jung or even meant as criticism. He certainly appeared, late in life, as one who chopped wood and carried water. 

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Hi Tariki

Not overly familiar with Jung ... just read a potted biography and followed discussions about him on the old Joseph Campbell forum.

Things that stick in my mind (or at least readily come to mind) are:

A quote that went something like, "I do not believe in God, I know."

I am skeptical (sceptical) of concepts like a collective unconscious, synchronicity and archetypes but I can see the arguments for them.

Jung apparently drove himself to close a mental breakdown searching for these archetypes.

A fairly popular personality indicator Myers Briggs Type Indicator is based on Jung's earlier work. I am a very consistent INTP.

I also think he came up with (or at least perpetuated) the thought that when we don't like someone there is a internal fear that we possess that trait that causes us not to like that person. While a little skeptical I find that a useful thought (regardless of veracity), when I start dealing with people I find I have difficulty with.

 

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Rom.

Perhaps what Jung meant is in my words.... "i have no need to believe in God as to me God is self-evident, therefor i know. Of course that begs the question to define the word God and even the word know.

Joseph

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11 minutes ago, JosephM said:

Rom.

Perhaps what Jung meant is in my words.... "i have no need to believe in God as to me God is self-evident, therefor i know. Of course that begs the question to define the word God and even the word know.

Joseph

Joseph

I am not overly fussed ... more a mild philosophical amusement  .... being agnostic 'n all.

But I agree Jung's quote is far more nuanced than a typical (Tia?) "I believe in God."

Here is Jung on the very subject with a bit more context.

 

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