Jump to content

What Is Truth?


tariki

Recommended Posts

 

cf earlier post.

These are the relevant posts regarding Truth for you that I found:

 

... about a Way to be and I think there is only one Way to be and become Human.

​So if I do not think the way as you do I will not be Human, I will remain just human? This is the Truth©?

​I hope you understand that I might just be a little skeptical of this world view.

There is only one way to be Free, to (choose and act to) become and be truly Human

Some of us see freedom as an illusion ... dependent origination in Buddhist terms or interbeing (intrabeing). A recognition that there is only one way I can be is an interesting world view. That I can see other world views I might have donned should is also interesting. Having said that I was driven to choose my world view.

 

This freedom is also Truth, a lived Truth

​As you probably can tell - I don't think so.

... colors were not the important part of the discussion, so it has been a bit lighthearted and, perhaps, avoidance - as it does not really pertain to Truth.

​Yes I can see why the workings of how our "simple" perceptions might mislead us to our grander perceptions of the Truth©​, and might really pertain to certain world views and in turn, might give us pause for further deliberation.

 

Personally your Truth is completely in the opposite direction to what I perceive as the evidence. Interbeing for me did not imply freedom. Science does not give hope for freedom from cause. (And with respect to Soma, quantum phenomena appear to be caused and are causes themselves). This leaves us with an evidentiary position that is somewhat akin to the not-self in Buddhist terms.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

"Just take what you need and leave the rest" Merton's words gave me clarity in the context of "one ways", "only ways" and "truth/Truth" as being freedom of mind. I was about to emphasise in a response to Thormas - where he said "well said" to me - that as far as "Christian speak" goes I'm more into being chosen than in chosing, in being accepted just as I am, than in accepting.

 

It does get complicated given my own non-theistic position.

 

My Buddhism for Dummies said the same thing more or less. I found I left most of it.

For me it is very simple ... there is cause and effect ... I am (we are) a result of that cause and effect. While this might not be the Truth©, it does appear to be true. Is there more, is this "more" independent of cause and effect?

 

Why would I want to be independent of this cause and effect - in fact why would I want to be independent of the universe at large?

 

:)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

My Buddhism for Dummies said the same thing more or less. I found I left most of it.

For me it is very simple ... there is cause and effect ... I am (we are) a result of that cause and effect. While this might not be the Truth©, it does appear to be true. Is there more, is this "more" independent of cause and effect?

 

Why would I want to be independent of this cause and effect - in fact why would I want to be independent of the universe at large?

 

:)

 

Ah ha! "Buddhism for Dummies". My own personal favourite is "The Bluffers Guide to Buddhism" which I can heartily recommend. That said, many of those who I have found myself paying attention to have said in one way or another that there is no logical "answer" to the human situation - "situation" in the sense that there IS suffering and that we seek not to suffer.

 

The Buddha claimed to teach "one thing and one thing only - suffering and the ending of suffering." Long ago, on a Buddhist Forum, I opened a thread "In what sense does suffering end?" and in my usual manner, included a quote in my OP, some words of a lapsed Buddhist who spoke of not wishing to indulge in some path that led to "some pseudo evolved transcendence of personal pain", and further, he was did not actually wish to rid himself of the personal pain of the loss of loved ones, that such would be a form of betrayal. My memory fails me as far as the "answers" I received went - I suppose even then I just took what I needed and left the rest.

 

I have found that indeed there is no "answer" as such. The lure of the word "enlightenment" suggests that there is, just as the word "salvation" calls to the Christian.

 

Some Zen koans speak to this conundrum. "A clearly enlightened person falls into the well. How is this so?"

 

"Enlightenment" is just not what we (or I should say, I) thought it was.

 

As you say Rom, Why would I want to be independent of this cause and effect - in fact why would I want to be independent of the universe at large?​

 

The strange thing is that such is not "giving up". To share in the becoming of our world, not indulging in the mental gymnastics that would seek to transcend it, to "let go" and accept, is for me to become human.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Following a 'way' to become and be Human is valued across traditions - in addition to Christianity, to which I had referred above. I am not presenting that statement as mine, with which all must agree, I am repeating what appears obvious and many, throughout history and to the present day, have already agreed.

.

Buddhism speaks of 'the path that leads to the end of suffering.' This is the eightfold path or the noble way - including right speech and right conduct. This Path is 'the way' that is to be traveled to achieve enlightenment and end suffering.

 

Taoism is called the Way, and in 'the Way' there are attitudes and practices for the service and living to a person’s own (true) nature.

 

So too with the 'way' of Judaism (symbolized in the journey trough the desert to the Promised Land), in which the Christian sect began. And Islam with its moral 'way' to be followed in personal, social, political, and religious life.

 

Zen Buddhism's T.D. Suzuki writes 'we are constituted by nature that we can all be artists (of life)' and 'to love God is to have no self, to be of no-mind, to become a dead man to be free from the constrictive motivations of consciousness. There is a 'way' - to be an artist of life, to become a dead man.

 

Sikhism (and I must admit it has been a while since I have thought of it) and Hinduism - also have their 'way.'

 

Do these religious traditions differ on major and minor points? Seemingly, but all profess a "way to be" in order to achieve Enlighment, the Fullness of Being, Paradise, Heaven, the Kingdom, Freedom (or call it what you will).

 

The idea is simply that we (humanity) are all the same and if there is 'something to overcome (suffering), to achieve (Enlightenment, Humanity), to share (Fullness of Being, Heaven), there is a 'sameness' in our way.'

And it seems the traditions all speak and/or allow for 'failure:' if one does not follow the way, there can be no enlightenment, no heaven, no abundant life.

There is a Way to Be and Become: it is the way of all creation.

 

There is an incredible diversity within the sameness of humanity; we have different ways of seeing and understanding. The Way is not set in stone, like a Yellow Brick Road, upon which all must tred in perfect order to arrive at the city on the hill. Rather, the Way is like paths through the woods, all speckled with sunlight, all holding possibilities, all originating and leading back to the source.

 

All the paths of the Way, hold the possibility for the travelers to have a truly Human Life. Although we are different, the same call is heard by all, the same destiny is given to all.

Edited by thormas
Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

Ah ha! "Buddhism for Dummies". My own personal favourite is "The Bluffers Guide to Buddhism" which I can heartily recommend. That said, many of those who I have found myself paying attention to have said in one way or another that there is no logical "answer" to the human situation - "situation" in the sense that there IS suffering and that we seek not to suffer.

 

The Buddha claimed to teach "one thing and one thing only - suffering and the ending of suffering." Long ago, on a Buddhist Forum, I opened a thread "In what sense does suffering end?" and in my usual manner, included a quote in my OP, some words of a lapsed Buddhist who spoke of not wishing to indulge in some path that led to "some pseudo evolved transcendence of personal pain", and further, he was did not actually wish to rid himself of the personal pain of the loss of loved ones, that such would be a form of betrayal. My memory fails me as far as the "answers" I received went - I suppose even then I just took what I needed and left the rest.

 

I have found that indeed there is no "answer" as such. The lure of the word "enlightenment" suggests that there is, just as the word "salvation" calls to the Christian.

 

Some Zen koans speak to this conundrum. "A clearly enlightened person falls into the well. How is this so?"

 

"Enlightenment" is just not what we (or I should say, I) thought it was.

 

As you say Rom, Why would I want to be independent of this cause and effect - in fact why would I want to be independent of the universe at large?​

 

The strange thing is that such is not "giving up". To share in the becoming of our world, not indulging in the mental gymnastics that would seek to transcend it, to "let go" and accept, is for me to become human.

 

When I lost our son, I found myself making a conscious effort not to avoid grief. But to experience and be accepting of that emotion. Evolution has imbued us with that capability so why try and avoid it? When I asked my sister in law about when she lost her husband and how she coped with the grief ... she answered that now it was like an old friend that comes to visit. I found those to be surprisingly true.

 

Neuroscience tells us suffering/pain is not what it seems to be .. nevertheless pain is or at least can be painful.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I was reading a TNH essay the other day talking about "pure land" a lot. One point was that suffering was a natural part of life, and that enlightenment involved using it for the development of compassion. A Christian attitude to be sure. Perhaps I misunderstood but I am trying.

 

https://www.lionsroar.com/in-the-pure-land-of-the-present-moment/

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Burl thanks for the link that is so beautiful with clear thought. This pure land moment is beyond time and includes outer space, deep space and inner space; It truly is heaven on earth. Everyone can remove the space, the concept that we are separate from God, the pure land moment so we can experience Divine unity directly, it doesn't matter if we are good or evil because in the moment we are neither. It so vast our mind can’t comprehend it so we Christians have Jesus as an example united with God to help us to become one with a new reality. We see God every day, but are not aware that he is consciousness with us and inside us, but if we “Let thy will be done” as Jesus says and truly believe it, the mind shuts down and divine consciousness in the moment acts through us. It is like stopping the mind from thinking so we can sleep at night, but in mindfulness the mind allows us to witness our thoughts and observe how one thought leads into another until we let go, "Lord let they will be done."

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

terms of service