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JosephM

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Posted (edited)

Is the 90 %+ negative coverage because his actions are 90 %+ negative?

The article itself does not explain why people voted for and continue defend such an unsuitable candidate. 

Your article says:

Quote

Fact-checking Trump is almost a waste of time as much of the public accepts his bluster in a way no established politician can ever get away with.

I don't see any redeeming features in Trump.

Edited by romansh

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7 hours ago, JosephM said:

Ever since the Korean war relations with North Korea have been hostile. My view would not say that relations are as low as they have ever been. We are at least talking to them.

The (because Russia help him win elections) insert  seems to me to be a presumption.

The Mideast remains to be seen as we have had nothing but wars (declared or not) there since before our 1st president took office.

Having said that i have doubts that our president will win a Nobel prize for anything or even be considered a peacemaker but then again the story is not  over yet. My guess is he will go down as both the most hated and loved president at the same time (most extreme differences in perception). 😉

Regarding NK, I actually meant 'as low as ever' so to be fair, I don't think Trump has made anything worse with them, just nothing better and indeed, nothing even coming close to a peace prize.

Same for the mideast - yes, there may have been war there 'forever' but my point is, Trump is no Peacemaker and gets no credit for improving anything there in my opinion.

Whilst it has been demonstrated that Russia interfered with and influenced your last Presidential election, I agree that it is my 'presumption' that 'because' of the advantages given to Trump by the Russians that he has then favoured Putin.  But if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck... :)

But I certainly agree with you - Trump is the most polarizing leader the US has ever had.  He certainly doesn't seem interested in bringing your country together  but rather he seems to give the finger to anybody that doesn't agree with him - your own people included.  I just see it as a shame and a poor representation of what I think the US used to stand for.

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6 hours ago, Burl said:

All media is propaganda, but no one with knowledge speaks during an active military campaign.

I don't think 'all' media is propaganda, that's just too convenient in my opinion, but I do think that 'a lot' of media can be.

I'm not asking anyone to reveal state secrets about Iran here Burl and there is no active military campaign currently involving the US with Russia or North Korea.  Of course, none of that stops your president from tweeting about Iran.  He does love his wrath that guy!

 

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8 hours ago, romansh said:

Is the 90 %+ negative coverage because his actions are 90 %+ negative?

The article itself does not explain why people voted for and continue defend such an unsuitable candidate. 

Your article says:

I don't see any redeeming features in Trump.

Maybe you are not looking hard enough. He seems to me,  to be, exactly what we needed. He doesn't cover himself in a veil. 🙂

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2 hours ago, PaulS said:

Regarding NK, I actually meant 'as low as ever' so to be fair, I don't think Trump has made anything worse with them, just nothing better and indeed, nothing even coming close to a peace prize.

Same for the mideast - yes, there may have been war there 'forever' but my point is, Trump is no Peacemaker and gets no credit for improving anything there in my opinion.

Whilst it has been demonstrated that Russia interfered with and influenced your last Presidential election, I agree that it is my 'presumption' that 'because' of the advantages given to Trump by the Russians that he has then favoured Putin.  But if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck... :)

But I certainly agree with you - Trump is the most polarizing leader the US has ever had.  He certainly doesn't seem interested in bringing your country together  but rather he seems to give the finger to anybody that doesn't agree with him - your own people included.  I just see it as a shame and a poor representation of what I think the US used to stand for.

Well on North Korea ... read this https://www.latimes.com/world/la-fg-trump-kim-north-korea-summit-updates-htmlstory.html

I'll concede on your middle east view if it ends poorly for us.

I can quack like a duck but i am not a duck though i have been called worse things. :):)😀

That may be the way most of the world sees it especially with our news propaganda because he is hated by much of our 'swamp people' mostly democrats and media because of his personality,  but i think the majority of Americans really don't see it that way. Let's see what the next election says. If he doesn't get elected in spite of this mess, you can say i told you so and i will bow down to your clarity in judgement. 🙂 and my smile will look like this 😥

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28 minutes ago, JosephM said:

Well on North Korea ... read this https://www.latimes.com/world/la-fg-trump-kim-north-korea-summit-updates-htmlstory.html

I'll concede on your middle east view if it ends poorly for us.

I can quack like a duck but i am not a duck though i have been called worse things. :):)😀

That may be the way most of the world sees it especially with our news propaganda because he is hated by much of our 'swamp people' mostly democrats and media because of his personality,  but i think the majority of Americans really don't see it that way. Let's see what the next election says. If he doesn't get elected in spite of this mess, you can say i told you so and i will bow down to your clarity in judgement. 🙂 and my smile will look like this 😥

I don't understand the import to you of the article you referenced.  Yes Trump was the 1st President to meet Jung (Obama never wanted to for good reason) and since then (a year and a half ago) nothing has improved in relations or bringing NK into our world.  NK are the same threat level as pre-Trump meeting.  

The middle east has already ended poorly for all involved, irrespective of what develops from this latest conflict with Iran.  It's not that Trump is to blame, it's just that he's not a peacemaker and he hasn't done anything significant to change the situation.

You say 'personality', I might say 'character'.  Whilst he does have some strengths, I think his character is poor and that's what betrays the Presidency of your nation, in my opinion.  Undoubtedly there is bias in much reporting so I try to not take opinion too seriously, but fact checking does reveal a lot of lies and exaggeration by Trump which I think should be considered embarrassing for the Presidency.  If you don't mind those things, well, it is your country.

Polling seems to indicate that the majority of Americans don't approve of his performance (but admittedly polling can be off) and his ratings have changed very little since his term began.  It doesn't seem like he's gotten the rest of the country on board and moving in his direction but rather, his 'people' are digging in and nobody else is joining the party.  That said, elections don't necessarily elect the most popular person (as we well know with Trump never getting a simple majority) and for some of the reasons you mention there may be those who don't rate Trump but don't want perhaps a rabid democrat as President either.  So for both of us, I don't think it should be a case of I told you so no matter how it falls - unless Trump performs outstandingly at the next election - then I would accept that the majority of America has lost it's mind! :)

Views on Trump are a perfect example of perception and perspective at work! :)

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40 minutes ago, JosephM said:

He doesn't cover himself in a veil. 🙂

Unless he is paying porn stars hush money to keep quiet about his extra marital affairs!  Character.

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5 minutes ago, PaulS said:

I don't understand the import to you of the article you referenced.  Yes Trump was the 1st President to meet Jung (Obama never wanted to for good reason) and since then (a year and a half ago) nothing has improved in relations or bringing NK into our world.  NK are the same threat level as pre-Trump meeting.  

The middle east has already ended poorly for all involved, irrespective of what develops from this latest conflict with Iran.  It's not that Trump is to blame, it's just that he's not a peacemaker and he hasn't done anything significant to change the situation.

You say 'personality', I might say 'character'.  Whilst he does have some strengths, I think his character is poor and that's what betrays the Presidency of your nation, in my opinion.  Undoubtedly there is bias in much reporting so I try to not take opinion too seriously, but fact checking does reveal a lot of lies and exaggeration by Trump which I think should be considered embarrassing for the Presidency.  If you don't mind those things, well, it is your country.

Polling seems to indicate that the majority of Americans don't approve of his performance (but admittedly polling can be off) and his ratings have changed very little since his term began.  It doesn't seem like he's gotten the rest of the country on board and moving in his direction but rather, his 'people' are digging in and nobody else is joining the party.  That said, elections don't necessarily elect the most popular person (as we well know with Trump never getting a simple majority) and for some of the reasons you mention there may be those who don't rate Trump but don't want perhaps a rabid democrat as President either.  So for both of us, I don't think it should be a case of I told you so no matter how it falls - unless Trump performs outstandingly at the next election - then I would accept that the majority of America has lost it's mind! :)

Views on Trump are a perfect example of perception and perspective at work! :)

Well it seems to me, relations can't get better if you don't talk. Maybe i got it wrong.

Nobody has made a lasting peace there since i was born and most likely before. So which other of our presidents were peace makers?

I'll give you that one 'character'. But i remain saying he is exactly what we needed. We don't need a president that gets embarrassed too easily. Trump can handle it. Perhaps you have a problem with his lies? . None of us are saints....i take that back, i can't speak for you or  others. :) He does know how to assign catchy names to people. :)

Trump is more popular today than at any other time in his presidency. Even CNN will tell you that and they are basically anti-Trump. You can take that for gospel. Just come to the Villages here and take a poll. :)

Yes they are just like your comment above on the middle east ....  "The middle east has already ended poorly for all involved" Do you already have the big picture? Cause i don't and am interested in it if you do. 🙂

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17 minutes ago, PaulS said:

Unless he is paying porn stars hush money to keep quiet about his extra marital affairs!  Character.

You might do the same if you were running for President and were so inclined to enjoy consensual sex beforehand, No? 🙂 Heck President Bill Clinton did it in the Oval office with Lewinsky, while president, No? You don't see me attacking his character now that i know better. 🙂

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BTW - I just closed the old poll in post 1. Will be starting a new one soon. Geez, you guys here had Trump in last place. I guess your not too good at picking winners. lol😄

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21 minutes ago, JosephM said:

Well it seems to me, relations can't get better if you don't talk. Maybe i got it wrong.

Nobody has made a lasting peace there since i was born and most likely before. So which other of our presidents were peace makers?

I'm not arguing that any of your Presidents were peacemakers or that Trump is not any better than another - my reference was only in regard to Burl saying "Blessed are the peacemakers. No war with Russia. North Korea's disarmament will earn Trump a Nobel. The multiple wars in the mideast no longer include the US.  I have never seen a first term president have such astounding success."  So yes, he had a meeting with NK but that hasn't improved anything.  So I don't see him getting brownie points for telling us he has done so much to improve things on that front when nothing has changed.

21 minutes ago, JosephM said:

I'll give you that one 'character'. But i remain saying he is exactly what we needed. We don't need a president that gets embarrassed too easily. Trump can handle it. Perhaps you have a problem with his lies? . None of us are saints....i take that back, i can't speak for you or  others. :) He does know how to assign catchy names to people. :)

Trump is more popular today than at any other time in his presidency. Even CNN will tell you that and they are basically anti-Trump. You can take that for gospel. Just come to the Villages here and take a poll. :)

Yes they are just like your comment above on the middle east ....  "The middle east has already ended poorly for all involved" Do you already have the big picture? Cause i don't and am interested in it if you do. 🙂

Perhaps the US needed elements of Trump, but I think the trade-offs outweigh the good he might do.  

It doesn't surprise me that certain demographics support Trump.  I know you're joking concerning your Village - of course they love Trump and I know you know that a poll held in another demographic would return exactly the opposite result.  Trump plays to 'his' people and alienates those who disagree with him.  I'm not sure you're accurate about Trump being more popular.  I guess it may come down to which polling you consider.  But there is a reason why the majority of the country disprove of his performance compared to approving it.

What I mean about the middle east and conflict is that it has been a miserable situation for all involved.  What the picture will be, it will be.  Peace could well come about by nuking a few countries.  Would that be a good result?

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37 minutes ago, JosephM said:

You might do the same if you were running for President and were so inclined to enjoy consensual sex beforehand, No? 🙂 Heck President Bill Clinton did it in the Oval office with Lewinsky, while president, No? You don't see me attacking his character now that i know better. 🙂

As you know, I'm all for consensual sex.  But lying to people and trying to cover the matter up cuts to character, whether running for president or not, in my opinion.  Same with Bill Clinton - trying to deceive people cuts to character.  What I'm amazed about is how prepared people are to accept poor character in their leaders.  How does one say with a straight face - this person is a great leader when they lie, deceive and exaggerate to achieve their ends.  To me, it doesn't seem the character that any society should be prepared to accept of their leaders.

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7 hours ago, JosephM said:

Geez, you guys here had Trump in last place. I guess your not too good at picking winners. lol😄

Well to be fair, it seems the majority of US citizens agreed with me (and others) and wanted to see Hillary as the next President compared to Trump (Hillary - 65,853,514 versus 62,984,828) but as you know, your electoral system didn't allow the most popular person with the US voters to be put into the top job.

I should also point out that the poll wasn't about who people thought would win, but rather who they preferred to win.  I still think my choice was a winning preference, but I can understand why you lot wanted a lying deceiver rather than a criminal cartel in the chair :).  Americans eh! :)

Incidentally, I did win $600 by betting on the correct winner of our Aussie government last year when everybody said they couldn't win.  The bookmakers even paid out over $2m to punters who bet the Opposition would win, over a week before the election was even held!

Edit - I just checked one of the main bookies here (Sportsbet) and Trump is currently offering $1.83 with the closest contender being Joe Biden at $5.  Not bad odds for Joe, but not enough in it to tempt me backing Trump (yet).

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9 hours ago, PaulS said:

As you know, I'm all for consensual sex.  But lying to people and trying to cover the matter up cuts to character, whether running for president or not, in my opinion.  Same with Bill Clinton - trying to deceive people cuts to character.  What I'm amazed about is how prepared people are to accept poor character in their leaders.  How does one say with a straight face - this person is a great leader when they lie, deceive and exaggerate to achieve their ends.  To me, it doesn't seem the character that any society should be prepared to accept of their leaders.

Unfortunately very few saints have the inclination to run for office here in the US. It takes an enormous amount of money and friends in high places to compete. It also routinely uses many times lies and exaggerations which might fall in your description of 'poor character' when one researches very deeply. Trump didn't fit in the system well and was hated from the start so they dug pretty deep and yes to get where he was perhaps there was plenty. New York is known for it. 🙂 I ran for senator in KY in the 90's and my background is relatively clean by most any standard. I took no money from PACS (political action committees) and they (a then powerful KY senator and cohorts of the same party backing another which is not considered ethical in a primary) made up dirt, and used every trick in the book and i lost by a few hundred votes after much hard work and using mostly my own money. The political scene , i found can  be a dirty game. No regrets now and learned some great lessons first hand.

At what point on the the continuum does character become 'poor' ??? 😄

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10 hours ago, PaulS said:

Well to be fair, it seems the majority of US citizens agreed with me (and others) and wanted to see Hillary as the next President compared to Trump (Hillary - 65,853,514 versus 62,984,828) but as you know, your electoral system didn't allow the most popular person with the US voters to be put into the top job.

 

Well you are correct and for good reasons you can look up if interested.

10 hours ago, PaulS said:

Incidentally, I did win $600 by betting on the correct winner of our Aussie government last year when everybody said they couldn't win.  The bookmakers even paid out over $2m to punters who bet the Opposition would win, over a week before the election was even held!

Edit - I just checked one of the main bookies here (Sportsbet) and Trump is currently offering $1.83 with the closest contender being Joe Biden at $5.  Not bad odds for Joe, but not enough in it to tempt me backing Trump (yet).

So you Aussies gamble on elections eh? That sounds like real wholesome 'character' . 😀

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10 hours ago, JosephM said:

Unfortunately very few saints have the inclination to run for office here in the US. It takes an enormous amount of money and friends in high places to compete. It also routinely uses many times lies and exaggerations which might fall in your description of 'poor character' when one researches very deeply.

I don't disagree and I don't think one needs to research too deeply with many politicians, but still there seems to be a resignation that lies, deceit, exaggeration are just part of the game, so if people are content to have such people run their country, then they get what they ask for I guess.  

10 hours ago, JosephM said:

I ran for senator in KY in the 90's and my background is relatively clean by most any standard. I took no money from PACS (political action committees) and they (a then powerful KY senator and cohorts of the same party backing another which is not considered ethical in a primary) made up dirt, and used every trick in the book and i lost by a few hundred votes after much hard work and using mostly my own money. The political scene , i found can  be a dirty game. No regrets now and learned some great lessons first hand.

Indeed, a similar game is played here in Oz.

Quote

At what point on the the continuum does character become 'poor' ??? 😄

Perception, indeed! :)

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13 hours ago, JosephM said:

Well you are correct and for good reasons you can look up if interested.

I understand it's legal and all and how your voting system weighs votes, just pointing out that he wasn't the most popular person voted for.

Quote

So you Aussies gamble on elections eh? That sounds like real wholesome 'character' . 😀

Mate, we would gamble on two drops of rain running down a window pane to see which one hits the bottom first!  And you've not gambled properly until you've played our "Two-Up".  Gambling is regarded as part of a wholesome character here - who would trust somebody not prepared to put their money where their mouth is! :)

Edit - It seems up until Trump's reign, betting on US Presidential Elections was illegal, but your courts have now said (in 2018) that not being allowed to bet on these outcomes is unconstitutional.  Subsequently, in many US States you can now bet, with more coming on line soon.

https://www.sportsbettingdime.com/guides/how-to/bet-on-politics/

 

betting.png

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4 hours ago, PaulS said:

I understand it's legal and all and how your voting system weighs votes, just pointing out that he wasn't the most popular person voted for.

 

Well, the truth be known , neither one was really popular. Our system picks our choices for us and then they make promises they can't keep and let us vote.🙂

5 hours ago, PaulS said:

Mate, we would gamble on two drops of rain running down a window pane to see which one hits the bottom first!  And you've not gambled properly until you've played our "Two-Up".  Gambling is regarded as part of a wholesome character here - who would trust somebody not prepared to put their money where their mouth is! :)

Edit - It seems up until Trump's reign, betting on US Presidential Elections was illegal, but your courts have now said (in 2018) that not being allowed to bet on these outcomes is unconstitutional.  Subsequently, in many US States you can now bet, with more coming on line soon.

 

 I wasn't aware of that . Yep, the arbitrary points (norms) on the continuum continue to change. What was once considered a character flaw (gambling) here is now healthy. One can imagine what some will do to make their candidate win now that money can be personally made from it by anyone. 🙂

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2 minutes ago, JosephM said:

Well, the truth be known , neither one was really popular. Our system picks our choices for us and then they make promises they can't keep and let us vote.🙂

I think that is a flaw with our current democratic processes in both our countries!  I've always been against Dictatorship, unless I was the dictator and then I would make it all perfect! :)

2 minutes ago, JosephM said:

 I wasn't aware of that . Yep, the arbitrary points (norms) on the continuum continue to change. What was once considered a character flaw (gambling) here is now healthy. One can imagine what some will do to make their candidate win now that money can be personally made from it by anyone. 🙂

Until some new regime decides that it is unhealthy once again and changes the rules back!  Ah, the continuum of life! :)

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A whle ago Joseph asked which of the Democratic candidates appealed to me most … I wanted to say Yang, but did not really have a good basis for that reply.

Well The Washington Post came to my rescue with this handy dandy little quiz.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/politics/policy-2020/quiz-which-candidate-agrees-with-me/  

And guess who agreed with me most on the twenty highlighted questions.

image.png.77ca7bc4c5122b025fd3661a35d0f212.png

 

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11 hours ago, romansh said:

A whle ago Joseph asked which of the Democratic candidates appealed to me most … I wanted to say Yang, but did not really have a good basis for that reply.

Well The Washington Post came to my rescue with this handy dandy little quiz.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/politics/policy-2020/quiz-which-candidate-agrees-with-me/  

And guess who agreed with me most on the twenty highlighted questions.

image.png.77ca7bc4c5122b025fd3661a35d0f212.png

 

I may have to reassess whether Warren should actually be my pick too! Not that it matters much to an Aussie who's not allowed to vote in that election!

image.png

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The  interesting thing with Warren is, I did the quiz again and I put in what would be the opposite of what I thought. Warren still came in second (albeit as a poorer match). Bernie came in first.

The sad thing is, I think any of them would be better than Trump.

And Joseph had suggested I had not tried to see the good things the Trump administration has accomplished. Here is a list that Trump claims he has done.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/trump-administration-accomplishments/  

Edited by romansh

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