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soma

Be Awaken By Sin Don’T Feel Guilty

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As a Christian we label our loss of potential and clarity from the heavenly pure consciousness ‘original sin’, which is not a sin we committed, but something we suffer wandering and drifting in our love of duality and suffering in it until we follow our dreams. We suffer from our amnesia of the eternal love and joy in the soul where we have access to the consciousness of all things; therefore, we have to create our own. Our existence just being human manifest more happiness when we are aligned with the universel than when we try to manifest on our own and this spiritual joy of unity is latent in all of us. The mystics like St. Augustine are giving us a ladder to go from the inward deeper inward to a spiritual experience in the soul where the church only gives us a map that goes from the outward to the inward.

 

It seems pain, sorrow and sins are guides, rungs in our ladder of evolution as they naturally push and lead the mind towards a spiritual experience where they are the wings that fly us beyond the mind to experience the bliss in the soul. The map the church gives us can be misleading with guilt because sin doesn’t mean we did something wrong, but that we missed the mark, we were preoccupied not attending to the moment, we were not present. The confusions on the physical plane, the duality of sins and miseries of the mind are not remembered or renewed when we leave the mental realm so guilt is a trap that manipulates our thoughts. In the present moment harmony we see the balance and unity of opposites because a center of heaven on earth has glory even in our sorrows because when we are at our lowest point we are also the most open to change to a new life. The beast in us can lay in peace with our innocence in a renewal where we become whole or holy. We just need a paradigm shift so the mind in not trapped in the brain and opens to the awareness of being a part of the unified force field where we interact with the universe.

 

When our minds are not at peace our practice to pay attention, learn and quiet the mind gets us back to the mark, similar to making a canoe stable and balanced in choppy waters. If we missed the mark to the left or didn’t make adjustments for the wind now is the time in the present moment because spiritual awareness is not separating our self from our problems, but understanding, finding solutions and learning from them in earth school. If I miss the mark to hit the light switch, I did nothing wrong, but I am missing out on the love, light and energy that is always present. This fall of man, a fall from the soul’s state of grace begins in our mind where we think we are separate, individuals on our own, but our dreams from beyond the mind will show us the dimensions of a wide-ranging, all-encompassing reality.

 

If we make this shift in consciousness our story becomes a love story and we stop blaming others for our misfortune as we reinterpret our memories, which in Christianity is the process of forgiveness. Forgiveness is not something we carry out for other people, it does not mean we give a positive response to their misbehavior or our mistrust because it is just something that is essential for ourselves to move on to enjoy the peace and goodness that is all around us. Forgiveness takes a strong person and is a sign that one is ready to move on with life. It is a letting go of negative emotions, a spiritual process to love and heal the memories that wrong us and keep us from doing away with the guilt and negativity that blocks the spirit.

 

We don’t need others to accept us; we only need to accept ourselves, trust our mind, dreams, listen and follow them and rely on their accuracy to hit the mark. To miss the mark means we are preoccupied, we are not there, not in the joy of the present moment because we are doing something without being totally present. This is the lapse, the break we call sin because if we are totally conscious we will not error and we will have spiritual experiences like when we are absorbed and captivated by a sunset that holds our attention. The beauty of the light triggers our awe and wonder as we forget our sins and problems and it brings us into a higher consciousness, but for a person depressed it triggers their sadness. Every occurrence, good or bad can bring us into greater vibrational energy if we align with the spirit to create positive ripples in the mind. Our problems and sins will not go away until they have taught and awakened us to a consciousness that is above them, a pure awareness that abides in the present moment of Eternity.

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This is difficult for me. I believe that you are correct in every way here, soma. But it is very difficult for me to separate the actions which I believe to be harmful from my guilt. When I "miss the mark", and it hurts someone or myself, it will eat me up if I let it. On the the flip side, if I do not attach a negative judgement to it at all, I feel that I'm more likely to continue behaving that way. But the truth may be that neither ways are the answer. Perhaps it is only in surrender that I will climb that next wrung. I like the metaphor. It's difficult to climb with the extra weight of guilt and judgement. I must lighten my load to climb the next wrung, letting go of more with every wrung where pure consciousness awaits.

 

Thanks, soma. This is just what I needed to read today.

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Fatherman, We have all visited the same wrung, I like the way you spelled it where guilt twists our minds. I feel as Christians we can use the mind of Christ to rid ourselves of the guilt, feel the light and love that surrounds us, but the institution of Christianity has made guilt a technique to manipulate congregations to twist them into being followers and doing what we are told instead of being present in the moment and flexible at the same time. Fatherman I know you know this because you also sing the song of life that never stops, and the things that you have written here are testament to that. We stop and guilt is one of the obstacles, but the good thing is we can get right back in the flow and start singing again. We temporarily go through different thoughts because we have a mind, but those thoughts help us to help others who have them too. The mind causes so much mischief, but is a great tool to do what we have to do. Thanks for the support.

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"use the mind of Christ to rid ourselves of the guilt"

Do you equivocate this with the Christian notion of forgiveness or grace? Living in a state of Grace? For you, does it have anything to do with Jesus Christ having walked the earth or, even further, dying on the cross? Or are you thinking of Jesus being a Christ, just as we are capable if we live in the Christ mind?

 

Curious about your Christology here.

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. Our problems and sins will not go away until they have taught and awakened us to a consciousness that is above them, a pure awareness that abides in the present moment of Eternity.

 

Thanks for that Soma. Beautifully said.

 

Joseph

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"use the mind of Christ to rid ourselves of the guilt"

 

Do you equivocate this with the Christian notion of forgiveness or grace? Living in a state of Grace? For you, does it have anything to do with Jesus Christ having walked the earth or, even further, dying on the cross? Or are you thinking of Jesus being a Christ, just as we are capable if we live in the Christ mind?

 

Great question, I use the mind of Christ and forgiveness to get to the state of grace. The religion about Jesus are the stories told over and over and the dying on the cross is usually used to make us feel guilty or manipulate us in some way. I think the religion of Jesus through the mind of Christ enables the unit mind to arrive gracefully at the source of thought, the pure consciousness of God where everything is united and one. I call this experience of God a state of grace because their is nothing we can do to get there. Spiritual advancement cleanses the mind without even trying what I mean here is just removing the obstacles in the mind that keep coming up and redirecting it again for me sometimes brings me to the state of grace which is beyond all thought. Christ’s love of God leads me to the practice to purifying my mind by redirection to the source, the subtle states of Christ consciousness where the ultimate state of unity and harmony are experienced. This Reality has a profound influence on the individual and the world because it produces harmony, happiness and the environment for the individual to grow in the understanding of God, Jesus and who one really is. As we come to know the nature of God, His unity and Reality we also know more of our own true being as His reflection. Every individual has their own stories may they be science, Buddha, Christ, Shiva or Mohamed or just their own journey. I feel they are only the means to go beyond them to the experience. Beyond the mind there is no sin, but it is hard to remain in the state for long period, but just a short time helps deal with our problems and the opposites we experience on this plane of existence. Sorry if this is too abstract, but this is where I feel more comfortable at this time.

 

 

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My apologies to Soma for finding this thread a whole lot of nonsense. You are a body with a soul at the very best. The spiritual does not create the physical, it is the physical that creates the spiritual. Existence is 100% physical and 0% spiritual. The Kingdom is all physical and nothing else. This is the hardest pill to swallow. Living as if the Kingdom this existence is the Kingdom doesn't solve any problem, but it makes sure that we are not part of the problem.

 

Living in Grace does not give any insights or expand consciousness. It does lead to an abundant and joyful life. The Kingdom is existence; they are not two things that are side by side. No one alive or who has ever been alive or is going to be alive has ever lived anywhere other than in the Kingdom. It's just some people live like it is so and most don't.

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Mr Wright,

 

While you are most welcome to express your opinion/view concerning what you see the Kingdom as, and it may differ from others ... it is not necessary and welcomed here to say you find "this thread a whole lot of nonsense" regardless of apologizing with your first words. Try to keep your posts from speaking as if the others post is wrong or nonsense and merely say I disagree or see it differently and proceed to express your view or the way you see it and there will be no need for apologies. See our etiquette Policy here .

 

JosephM (as Moderator)

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Hi Soma,

 

Thanks for sharing your powerful and deep insights. I enjoyed reading your posts here.

 

I haven't been on TCPC for a few weeks, but do recall you and your wife were going to be travelling in the East. I hope you found many new insights on your journey.

 

God bless,

Jen

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Realspiritik thanks for the note, but we had to cancel because my dad died so we will go in the Fall and will be able to stay even longer.

 

"The spiritual does not create the physical, it is the physical that creates the spiritual. Existence is 100% physical and 0% spiritual."

 

Jim we can't prove there is a God and we can't prove there is not a God. The same with spirit or consciousness, I am talking from my experience with the consciousness within me and feel others have had similar experiences. I had many teachers from around the world that pointed to these experiences, but my main source to alter my consciousness to a very blissful state is Christ so I use Christian terminology to point to something that can't be proven. It obvious it does not point to happiness for you, but it does bring up some strong emotions and rightfully so as Christianity has been used to manipulate people for physical gain. Jesus is not the only teacher, there are many enlightened teachers all over the world past and present and we have some enlightened scientist.

 

Max Planck a physicist said, “I regard consciousness as fundamental. I regard matter as derivative from consciousness. We cannot get behind consciousness. Everything that we talk about, everything that we regard as existing, postulates consciousness.” Planck has very serious science and with his research behind him he speculates with the philosophy of science. Many of his speculative ideas have been very influential to main stream physics. There are many theories, Penrose has a modern one that tries to manufacture consciousness from matter, which is very interesting and I agree with some of his points, but no one has yet to make consciousness appear from unconscious matter except by magic. We don’t get consciousness by just putting neurons together.

 

David Chalmers says, “I am convinced that, no matter how detailed an account is provided of the neural processes that led to an action (say, a smile), that account will never explain where the feeling associated to that action (say, happiness) came from. No theory of the brain can explain why and how consciousness happens, if it assumes that consciousness is somehow created by some neural entity which is completely different in structure, function and behavior from our feelings. Similarly, if consciousness comes from a fundamental property of matter (from a property that is present in all matter starting from the most fundamental constituents), then, and only then, we can study why and how, under special circumstances, that property enables a particular configuration of matter (e.g., the brain) to exhibit "consciousness".

 

The American physicist Henry Stapp holds that classical Physics cannot explain consciousness because it cannot explain how the whole can be more than the parts. Many neurobiologists reach the same conclusion that Physics can’t explain consciousness because it studies matter and does not study consciousness. This is Newton’s mechanical universe similar to Descartes duality of matter and spirit where science only studies matter.

Edited by soma
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Soma, sorry to hear about your dad. My mom will soon be transitioning, it seems, and it's been a challenging time for our family.

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This is difficult for me. I believe that you are correct in every way here, soma. But it is very difficult for me to separate the actions which I believe to be harmful from my guilt. When I "miss the mark", and it hurts someone or myself, it will eat me up if I let it. On the the flip side, if I do not attach a negative judgement to it at all, I feel that I'm more likely to continue behaving that way. But the truth may be that neither ways are the answer. Perhaps it is only in surrender that I will climb that next wrung. I like the metaphor. It's difficult to climb with the extra weight of guilt and judgement. I must lighten my load to climb the next wrung, letting go of more with every wrung where pure consciousness awaits.

 

Thanks, soma. This is just what I needed to read today.

 

Hi Fatherman. I think one thing which can be said for certain is that everyone understands this and everyone has had to wrestle with it, so in talking about it, you'll find many sympathetic ears.

 

I have a somewhat different take on the struggle with guilt. It's what worked for me, though I know everyone's path is unique. In the hope that my own experience may help you somewhat, I'll share a few thoughts with you about how Jesus taught me about forgiveness. (Somewhere, buried deep in the pit of TCPC threads long dead and buried, is a series of posts Jesus wrote about Forgiveness. If memory serves, the thread was called something like "The Practice of Forgiving." So it's probably still there if you're interested in digging it up.)

 

One aspect that was very different for me than for many others was the timing. In the beginning of my journey with Jesus, he insisted on two things right from the beginning: (1) I had to learn how to be grateful and (2) I had to learn how to forgive. Another important early lesson was the question of judgment -- what judgment is as far as God is concerned, what judgment is not -- and the other two lessons (about gratefulness and forgiveness) always seemed to bring up the issue of judgment.

 

In the beginning, I struggled and struggled with the question of forgiveness. I could understand intellectually that God is so amazing that God can forgive almost anything. In terms of the "almost," I was mostly thinking of my own errors. I was deeply ashamed of some of my past choices -- so ashamed, I convinced myself that although God could forgive everyone else, God probably couldn't forgive me. This particular bugaboo is what the Christian church (and some other religious traditions, too) has historically drilled into people under the guise of "humility" (not to be confused with "humbleness").

 

Jesus wasn't having any of it, though. He kept telling me it wasn't okay for me to believe I was unworthy of God's forgiveness. He pointed out numerous times that I wasn't "special" in my unworthiness. Of course, "special" is the code word for narcissism, and I really didn't want God to think I was a narcissist (I mean, how embarrassing would that be?) so I had to use all my courage and all my free will to stop trying to think of myself as the only person on the planet who wasn't worthy of God's forgiveness. It wasn't easy at first, and I now know that my brain was struggling to dismantle some old networks that were interfering with my emotional patterns, but eventually I managed to accept -- first at an intellectual level, then at an emotional level -- that I was at least on an even footing with every other human being on the planet.

 

Another tactic Jesus used (because he understood how my brain was wired, whereas I did not) was the "constant reminder" tactic.

 

He had me type a post to the fridge this note: "When you are forgiven, you are forgiven." In other words, no ifs, ands, or buts. Take your forgiveness and shut the heck up!

 

So every time I went to the fridge, my brain saw the note and was reminded several times each day that learning to understand forgiveness was my most important task.

 

It wasn't my soul that was struggling to master forgiveness (since all persons-of-soul understand forgiveness); it was my biological brain. I had to wrestle and wrestle with the complex circuits of my brain and try to get the "wind section" and "brass section" and "string section" and "percussion section" all playing the same piece of music together at the same time under the direction of my soul's true self.

 

But to do this -- to get the inner orchestra back on track to its true potential -- I first needed to master forgiveness. It's forgiveness that helps you move forward when the wind section totally screws up its cue, or, well, you're a musician, so you know how many things can go wrong when a large group is trying to coordinate everything to make beautiful music. (Such is the reality of the human brain.)

 

So when you make a mistake, this would be my suggestion to you: Don't even try to pretend you didn't make a mistake. You're human, so you make mistakes. God knows this and God has already forgiven you before you've even realized you've made a mistake or missed the mark. But as a child of God, God expects you to suck it up, not allow yourself to fall into a state of self-pity (the state of self-pity I was once a world expert on!), and use all that amazing orchestral brain power to be grateful for the mistake.

 

So this is the hard part: how can you -- or anyone -- be grateful for a mistake? Well, you've probably already figured it out. You can be grateful for the chance to learn at a deeper level more about who you really are (a wonderful and blessed child of God whose brain has some piano keys that need tuning, but that's fixable with patience and courage!), what your true strengths are, what your true strengths are NOT, and what you can carry forward with you about the kinds of choices you want to make.

 

I know it's the journey of a lifetime, and there are no quick or easy fixes, but God knows who you really are and God BELIEVES in you, even when you don't believe in yourself.

 

Well, gotta run. Hope this helps a bit. Take care and God bless.

 

Jen

Edited by Realspiritik

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http://tcpc.ipbhost.com/index.php?/topic/1318-from-jesus-intro-to-the-practice-of-forgiving/?hl=%2Bpractice+%2Bforgiving

 

Jen, talk about synchronicity. Not only have I been searching for this thread this month, I used the information to quit smoking. And now I'm using it to bring my body into better general health. I used it to help my brother to deal with anxiety. I've read articles recently that support what you and J have written.

 

There are people/events which I have struggled to forgive which go all the way back to high school. But lately, I've been making progress. I Facebook friended both of my high school bullies. All of my anger at them melted away. They did not ask for forgiveness. They may not even remember what they did to me. Or perhaps they were feeling guilty and didn't know how to bring it up with me. But I knew that if I made that small gesture, I would no longer be subject to the pain. I would be taking control. The moment the requests were accepted, my pain subsided. I forgave. Perhaps I even helped them be released from their guilt.

 

This is known material. Forgiveness is not necessarily a process by which a person apologizes and I say that I forgive them. In my case it was an acknowledgement that we are all capable of hurting others and the scorn I felt was really only hurting me. So my forgiveness had less to do with them and more to do with me.

 

I read the word self-compassion lately in an article about bipolar disorder. I wish I could find it again, but this is an important notion to consider. Compassion is something loving we do and feel when another is suffering or, I would add, causing suffering. People who are causing suffering are most likely suffering themselves in some way. In a way, self-compassion isn't logical. But the intent of the word is. I can judge myself which means I can have compassion for myself. I can hate myself because of what I do or how I look or whatever. So why should I not be able to have compassion for myself?

 

I think that is where the notion of the Observer element of the mind steps in. This notion that there is a higher consciousness which can create our perception of reality. It can look down at it's own suffering man and have compassion. Given full reign, it can help the man heal from suffering. It can help cultivate forgiveness.

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Hi David, thanks for your sharing your thoughts and experiences. As always, you're very generous in sharing the ups and downs of your journey.

 

What I've learned more than anything on my journey is that God wants us to help each other, to have compassion for each other, and also to have compassion for ourselves.

 

There's no one person or one school of philosophy that has -- or ever could have -- all the answers. Not even Jesus has all the answers. But he's been an amazing teacher and friend for me, and I'll never be able to express my gratitude.

 

Over the years, he and some of my other soul-friends who aren't currently incarnated have shared vast reams of information with me about the way the brain and soul are interconnected. But until it's time for the wider community to stumble on these truths for themselves, and see the merit in both the science and philosophy of complex emotions such as forgiveness and self-compassion, it's not possible for the "tide" to grow large enough and wide enough to spread the message equally and inclusively.

 

As you know, I believe the dangers inherent in "revelation" and in forcing God's messages through "narrow portals" have created endless suffering for many human beings. For myself, I can only be glad and grateful that a whole host of God's loving children are now finding and teaching these messages in their own unique ways.

 

We all need each other's help on the path of healing and redemption. God bless.

Edited by Realspiritik

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Jen,

 

As you know, I'm as much of a witness as I am a philosopher. I know that we like to talk the hypothetical to death here, but it means little to me without "generous sharing of the ups and downs" as it applies to our discussion. :-)

 

Revelation is a dangerous tool, I agree. I have experienced revelation, but my belief is that it is primarily for me. I'm very reluctant to take on the role of prophet in the world. Those guys tend to become martyrs. ;-)

 

David

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Revelation is a dangerous tool, I agree. I have experienced revelation, but my belief is that it is primarily for me. I'm very reluctant to take on the role of prophet in the world. Those guys tend to become martyrs. ;-)

 

Yeah, and then people try to turn you into a Saviour and build an entire religion around your unwilling a**!

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Watching my Dad transition to another state I observed as he forgave himself as my mother forgave herself and found peace when she died a little while ago. It seemed like they were uninstalling viruses that they picked up in life. Which is a lesson for me to drop attachments that I have picked up that keep me from true freedom and the joy that goes with it. My father was a professional athlete and had to quit because of an injure, which at that time a part of the game of baseball was to deliberately throw at the batter for physiological reasons. My dad was very frustrated and took it out on the first two kids, but he learned and got better especially with the last six. I was kicked out of the family and disowned in High School, but I didn't have to forgive them because it was the best thing that happened to me and started my journey around the world and into myself. I realized they had their learning experiences and I have mine that I have to go through and there were paths we traveled together, broke off on different journeys and then returned for awhile. My wife when we were spotted in the vegetable market together was pressured with guilt and other means to not see me, but having to go through it myself I told her it was something only she could decide. She was also kicked out and disowned, but I observed her bloom into a great wife and mother for that experience. We both loved our families very much and like a crab once it attaches to something with its claw will not let go and sometimes will lose a claw rather than drop what is in its grasp. I came back to my parent's city to resolve any issues remaining before they died. I really did not have any and still loved them, but I feel they dropped the guilt and we just relaxed together as they transitioned. I really don't think we can teach anyone anything, just point and set an environment for people to discover for themselves what they came to planet earth to learn. When we die we will leave everything behind and transition to another reality probably not like our physical reality here where we oscillate between states of learning and clarity.

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