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renewedfaith1964

Jesus Or Darwin: Which One Is God?

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Who is God, Jesus or Darwin? I have spent a lot of my adult life trying to figure out if God was real, or whether evolution is true. I wanted to believe that Jesus was real, but evolution made me nervous. The reality is that Darwin, for all sakes and purposes, is cast as a god. Only a god could make this entire universe and its surreal complexity. After tons of soul searching, I have landed on the side of Jesus. This was not some blind leap of faith. It has been 30 years in the making. I read many, many books about science and evolution. I also prayed a lot. This was no easy decision. I have always considered myself a Christian, but wanted to really analyze everything. In the end, there just wasn't anything there for evolution. Sorry, but all of the claims made by evolution simply defy logic. If you ever really scrutinize them, it will only strengthen your faith. I found it comforting that scientific scrutiny of evolution found it utterly lacking.

 

Another thing that Jesus brings is hope. If you believe in Darwin, he, quite literally, gives you no hope. That's sobering.

If anybody else has struggled with this, I want to encourage them to seek the Lord. He is not angry at you for trying to figure out the truth. If it helps, read my book (free at Smashwords.com called "iDoubt: When Faith Falters"). One particular chapter you'll really like is called, "It’s Hard to Believe in Fairy Tales." The chapter looks at claims made by evolution and shows them to be fairy tales. Don't be afraid to challenge evolution. In the end, it is lacking. Oh, and I'm not an idiot. I am an honors graduate of a prestigious law school and am a very successful trial attorney in California. I'm not some country bumpkin who just believes anything that his pastor says. I get paid to critically analyze facts. I have done the same to evolution and find it to be a complete myth. Seek and ye shall find. God is with you as you seek.

 

Is my solution perfect? No. Am I suddenly going to become a fundamentalist, religious zealot? Hades no! Just saying that, with all the problems of religion, evolution is even more lacking.

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I accept evolution as scientific fact, yet certainly don't see Darwin as God (well, no more as God than either you or I anyway). I also believe Jesus existed and that he was a real person. I don't believe Jesus said much of what he is quoted as saying in our current editions of the Bible.

 

'Only a god could make this entire universe & it's surreal complexity' is a belief or an opinion, it is not an answer to our non-understanding of everything about this magnificent thing we call the universe.

 

I too have read a lot about evolution, without the prayer to be honest, and I can't shake a thing about its science. Sure, there are some crackpots out there and there are some 'theories' about aspects of evolution that some promote as fact when really there is more information required, but in the main the science of evolution is unquestionable, IMO. I also hold post-graduate university qualifications and have also studied much about the 'evidence' for evolution.

 

I am always curious why 'hope' is such a big deal to some people and it often seems that it enters their decision-making process with bias. Why do you need this 'hope' you think Jesus provides CP? Why can't living a full and happy life be enough without needing eternal reward/existence? It happens to be enough for me that I can live 70 or so years, experience a marriage and raise two children. After that, if it happens to be lights out, I'm fine with that.

 

I read that chapter of your book and I can't see anything their that debunks evolution as fairy tales. To the contrary, I seem some jumps in logic that would never stand up in a court of law. I accept that that is how you see things, but I don't see how it disproves evolution.

 

Very, very intelligent people also hold racist and homophobic views (I am not saying you do), but my point is that intelligence has been studied and shown to not necessarily have any correlation when it comes to religious belief. More often psychological factors such as culture, upbringing and life experience seem to affect that part of our thinking, moreso than academic study anyhow.

 

Can't say I agree with you on evolution vs God, and frankly I don't even agree that the two have to be in conflict, but as long as your beliefs don't hurt anybody else, so be it.

 

Cheers

Paul

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Hi Renewedfaith 64,

 

I think that's a pretty courageous manifesto to post on a progressive forum like this one. There are probably scientists, avowed atheists, and everything in between here.

 

At the end of the day (or 30 years), after performing their due diligence to the best of there ability, a person is free to draw their own conclusions, and be respected for that view.

 

Peace.

Steve

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but in the main the science of evolution is unquestionable, IMO.

 

Paul, totally love the spirit of your response. So, please, don't take this wrong. I went onto a non-Christian website and asked a question that nobody could answer. I certainly am not trying to demean you or anyone else. I am simply trying to demonstrate that people really don't know much about evolution. Let me pose it to you. Name five things about evolution that you know are true.

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I am always curious why 'hope' is such a big deal to some people and it often seems that it enters their decision-making process with bias. Why do you need this 'hope' you think Jesus provides CP? Why can't living a full and happy life be enough without needing eternal reward/existence? It happens to be enough for me that I can live 70 or so years, experience a marriage and raise two children. After that, if it happens to be lights out, I'm fine with that.

 

 

Paul, I can totally respect this angle. My dad is the same way. I totally accept him. I'm focusing on people who are concerned about their future after this world. For those who want more, atheism, by definition, can never deliver it.

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I have never heard any scientist who thinks Darwin is God. I have heard people say Clapton is God given his influence in rock music. I don't know where this Darein/God association came from but it doesn't make sense. So if renewedfaith1964 can point to where this association is made pleas do so. I don't think Darwin would approve of being associated with God. He seemed somewhat modest about such matters. Also it is my understanding that Darwin addressed the controversey with creationists at the time to dispel the myth that he did not believe in God among other issues. He does place an agent - the Creator as being at the beginning of natural selection. Also he did not write The Origin of Species not call the The Origin of Life as a treatise attacking religion or belief in God. I am sure that will be contested. Why are people's belief in God threatened by evolutionary theory? This topic is passé to done extent. At least I think so. God about putting it aside and dealing with the real problems in this world, whether one believes in God or not.

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Paul, I can totally respect this angle. My dad is the same way. I totally accept him. I'm focusing on people who are concerned about their future after this world. For those who want more, atheism, by definition, can never deliver it.

 

To the contrary, Atheism and the independence and responsibility that goes with it can offer these people much, much more than they realise. They can realise the hope that their life is in their hands, that the choices they make and the actions they take deliver a very real result to their life here and now, and that of those they experience it with.

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Paul, totally love the spirit of your response. So, please, don't take this wrong. I went onto a non-Christian website and asked a question that nobody could answer. I certainly am not trying to demean you or anyone else. I am simply trying to demonstrate that people really don't know much about evolution. Let me pose it to you. Name five things about evolution that you know are true.

 

Happy to take your question in the spirit it is intended :)

 

More important that arguing 5 individual points that I am certain you will counter with some point or another, I rely upon this premise for supporting evolution:

 

Quote: "It is a historical science confirmed by the fact that so many independent lines of evidence converge to this single conclusion. Independent sets of data from geology, palaeontology, botany, zoology, biogeography, comparative anatomy and physiology, genetics, molecular biology, developmental biology, embryology, population genetics, genome sequencing, and many other sciences each point to the conclusion that life evolved".

 

It's not the missing link, or certain fossils that prove evolution, but the fact that our sciences are based on this supposition and continually come up trumps because they have considered and applied evolutionary theory.

 

Perhaps you could explain to me what science has been used to confirm creationism or indeed, demonstrate any scientific understanding that has been achieved through the belief in a creator God?

 

Cheers

Paul

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To the contrary, Atheism and the independence and responsibility that goes with it can offer these people much, much more than they realise. They can realise the hope that their life is in their hands, that the choices they make and the actions they take deliver a very real result to their life here and now, and that of those they experience it with.

 

Actually atheism can show people a more accurate view of interdependence. That our lives actually are not in our own hands. Believing we are somehow intrinsically independent beings is I would argue very much a theistic argument. To be fair many atheists have also adopted this dualistic view.

 

There's me and then there is the rest of the universe.

 

The word religion means to reconnect ... I think we should understand me is not separate. Religion ideally should show us a way (not the) to be one with the universe. Unfortunately the Abrahamic religions get us off to a bad start where the God is somehow separate from us.

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The reality is that Darwin, for all sakes and purposes, is cast as a god.

 

The only people I hear this claim from are theists who have an axe to grind with the concept of evolution. I know of no one within the scientific community who views Darwin as G-d or a god.

 

I am thankful, however, for the medical breakthroughs that are a direct result of Mr. Darwin's bravery in the face of what must have been enormous pressure and condemnation from the religious community of his day.

 

From what I understand, Darwin withheld his discovery from publication because he was aware of the immense controversy and intense anger the truth of his findings would bring.

 

So, it would appear that you are not unique in your struggle with these matters.

 

NORM

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There is really only one that is needed.

 

I am convinced that living beings evolve. This is as close to proven as science gets. We have seen it occur ... the Galapagos Islands is the best known example of a gene selection due to an environmental advantage. If one admits that even on evolutionary change has occurred then logic demands that we accept that evolution can happen not that it did in the specific but that broadly it can happen. From there you would look for evidence to support or (not support) the notion of the specific.

 

I applaud you, renewedinfaith, for your questioning spirit and willingness to ask for opinions of those who you might expect to disagree. Far too often we seek only those opinions that support our current way of thinking and learn very little in the process.

 

steve

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