GeorgeW Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 I regretfully must say goodbye. Last week, I resigned as a moderator because a serious disagreement with policy as determined unilaterally by The Global Moderator. At the time, I hoped to continue to participate as a member. Now, I have been silenced on an issue that a number of pastors are speaking about from their pulpits because it is not relevant or appropriate to a progressive Christian forum, as determined by the Global Moderator. Now, while recognizing the authority of the administrator to censor whomever and whatever he wishes, as a matter of conscience, I find it difficult to contine participating in the forum. I wish you all the very best, George Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulS Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 (edited) I don't know if you'll read this George, or if you have already signed off from this forum. In any event I would like to say that I think it is dissapointing that you won't be participating any more. I have found your posts useful and a pleasure to read/debate. You will be missed. I don't know the precise reason or conversations you've had that have culminated in this decision, but I would ask that you reconsider leaving - if you think something is wrong then the only way to change it is to try and change it. By leaving you have no opportunity to do so and the matter remains unresolved. Edited January 22, 2013 by PaulS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NORM Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 I regret that Paul beat me it, but I too will miss your commentary in the forum. While I understand the difficulty in moderating a religious themed forum (herding cats comes to mind), nevertheless, I wish that we had a bit freer hand to get to the meat of these issues. Unfortunately, that almost always involves ruffled feathers and wounded pride. You will be missed, my friend. BTW, do you ever post on Theology Web (http://www.theologyw...pus/content.php)? I am NormATive over there. As a non-theist, I am only allowed to post in the Apologetics section (and be seen by Christians), so drop by sometime. How will I know it's you? Cheers! NORM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JosephM Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 It is most unfortunate to see GeorgeW with over 1900+ uncensored and rich respectful contributing posts on our forum leave over one not allowed. I would also ask him as a friend and administrator to reconsider and stay on and continue to contribute in line with the direction of this forum. While there are those with strong views and opinions on politics, government, gun control and other similar issues that do have some link to PC and this forum, in my view as Administrator it is not best served by more than an occasional and light thread on such issues. With 50+ posts in the subject area by GeorgeW, i do not feel this forum has silenced him or failed to allow him ample opportunity to express his views especially in light of the advance announcing of the closing of the gun and gun control thread and repeated appeal to avoid re-ignition. While gun control is indeed an important issue for America and many here, i believe there are more appropriate forums, blogs and media for more prolonged focus on such issue/s. Such is the direction i have set as Administrator and i thank you for your cooperation and compliance. JosephM(as Admin) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glintofpewter Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 George, I will miss you. Joseph, it isn't the first time I have felt you were heavy handed. Perhaps as has been said it is necessary. But I don't think George's last post made it so. Recognizing that there are many other good conversations and hoping that you don't count the times I have repeated myself - heaven forbid - Dutch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vridar Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 George and George's Friends, Some may have read between the lines of some of my posts. George and I go back a long time. There are few days when I don't ask, "What would George do?" I'm not exaggerating. George and I met on another message board which was eventually joined with this forum. With George's and other's guidance I've become a "soft" atheist to the point I don't like being referred to as an atheist. George had much advice, mostly in question form, leading me to my current appreciation of religion and Jesus. He most famously always stated religion is not the problem, the people within religion is the problem. So prophetic. George knows my feelings for him and when I write these adulations I can imagine his flushing in embarrassment even though we've never met. George corrected when I was wrong, George acquiesced when I made good points. I know George has had the same effect on many others. I'm just sorry his tenure is over here. Knowing he is principled and when he says Goodbye he means it. Consequently, he will not see this and other posts but I would be interested, if not pressing a protocol button, if he has changed other members lives. George will be missed, but it's not George's loss, it is ours. In Total Respect for George, Ron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murmsk Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 When a group begins to lose GOOD, thoughtful, reasonable members over policy issues, it is time to reconsider the policies. steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulS Posted January 29, 2013 Share Posted January 29, 2013 When a group begins to lose GOOD, thoughtful, reasonable members over policy issues, it is time to reconsider the policies. steve Not neccessaily, Steve. The policies seem to work pretty good here from what I can tell, and there are certainly very few good, thoughtful, reasonable members resigning over policy issues. I of course am very dissapointed that George felt he couldn't continue, but I don't think that neccessarily means there are problems with the forum's policies. Just my two bob's worth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glintofpewter Posted January 29, 2013 Share Posted January 29, 2013 Paul, You have a cool head. I do agree with you. I'd rather things turned out differently and maybe it could have been better. dutch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulS Posted January 29, 2013 Share Posted January 29, 2013 Thanks Dutch. George staying would have definitely been better than his departure, and I hope he finds his way back here someday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murmsk Posted January 29, 2013 Share Posted January 29, 2013 In the first place I said reconsider the policies not blindly change them. Yes it is working ..... but could it be more? My personal opinion is we could use a bit more diversity in opinion around here. One of the problems that has been pointed out in the news media of late is that folks with differing opinions don't have to talk with one another anymore because we have the ability to easily find groups that agree with our points of view. Thus we, as a society, are losing our ability to have respectful disagreements and exchanges of viewpoints. This place has the ability to have respectful discussions about the issues that are and should be discussed in our faith communities ie: gun control, like few other places due to its active moderator group. You have the control to keep the discussions positive and respectful. I worry that this place will become another group where disagreement is not tolerated. steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulS Posted January 29, 2013 Share Posted January 29, 2013 In the first place I said reconsider the policies not blindly change them. Yes it is working ..... but could it be more? My personal opinion is we could use a bit more diversity in opinion around here. One of the problems that has been pointed out in the news media of late is that folks with differing opinions don't have to talk with one another anymore because we have the ability to easily find groups that agree with our points of view. Thus we, as a society, are losing our ability to have respectful disagreements and exchanges of viewpoints. This place has the ability to have respectful discussions about the issues that are and should be discussed in our faith communities ie: gun control, like few other places due to its active moderator group. You have the control to keep the discussions positive and respectful. I worry that this place will become another group where disagreement is not tolerated. steve Of course you didn't say blindly change them Steve, but you did say its time to reconsider them when we lose people over policy issues. In this instance we seem to have lost one person perhaps not so much because of policy issues, as opposed to a difference of opinion. It needs to be noted that there was no policy that saw the disengagement of George, other than his own convictions. Perhaps things could be more and that is a fair question to ask. I respect your opinion that there could be more diversity of opinion here, although I really think we are pretty well accomplished here in the diversity-allowance stakes! In any event, I don't think George's view was not tolerated because he did not agree with the powers that be, but rather that the judgement of those who are entrusted with the responsibility of keeping this site a place for respectful discussion was not properly understood and accepted by George. And I say that with the deepest respect for George because I valued his participation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vridar Posted January 29, 2013 Share Posted January 29, 2013 (edited) <> I don't think George's view was not tolerated because he did not agree with the powers that be, but rather that the judgement of those who are entrusted with the responsibility of keeping this site a place for respectful (my emphasis) discussion was not properly understood and accepted by George.> All, Obviously, I'm not unbiased in this discussion. But, an indication that George was not respectful grates at my respect for George. And, above all, he would understand respectability and understanding. Accepting them(?), obviously, he didn't. That's why he peacefully is gone - never to return, I know. I have no idea what went on behind the scenes but from the surface I assumed the Administrator felt the gun control discussion had run its course and he preferred it be dropped. The administrator has the power by definition to make those decisions and George of all people would understand that. It is my opinion George thought the gun issue was important enough to devote more time than the administrator did. Again, reading only the surface posts, I gathered that the Administrator and George were on opposing sides of this issue. I learned early that those with the money and power usually win most debates. I'm afraid the Administrator and the forum didn't win this debate. George will be missed. Are the number of postings diminished with George's absence? Does the Administrator have access to a trend? And is it a trend yet or am I too biased to see the truth? Are the posts more controlled and pacific? I may be biased in this area also. If the PC forum desires a more pacific, back slapping, let's all just get along forum, it is such, A wise person once told me the people will have what they want. I think we've got what we want if it's a homogeneous gathering. But there should be a place for vigorous debate some where on the spectrum between pacific and inflammatory. I'm still seeking a home. Ron Edited for punctuation. Edited January 29, 2013 by Vridar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vridar Posted January 29, 2013 Share Posted January 29, 2013 <...It needs to be noted that there was no policy that saw the disengagement of George, other than his own convictions.> All, Reading the posts tells me George left because a post was deleted that should not have been according to George. It's my belief George left not because of policy but for strong-arm actions unexplained by Administration to him and the members. I'm not here to fight George's battles, I'm here to try to understand how a better forum can continue. George's comments are mostly why I'm here and now he's gone. Again, he was instrumental in my journey. Can anyone find in the 1900+ posts a post that is disrespectful or/and against stated policy? Respectfully, Ron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murmsk Posted January 29, 2013 Share Posted January 29, 2013 It needs to be noted that there was no policy that saw the disengagement of George, other than his own convictions What do you mean by his own convictions? Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JosephM Posted January 29, 2013 Share Posted January 29, 2013 Just for the record.... George's behavior and posts here have in the past always been, imo as administrator and member, to the best of his ability respectful, informative and of positive contribution to the discussions at hand, From my view, George leaves with an excellent record as both a moderator and as a member. He simply disagreed with my moderating decision of closing of the guns and gun control thread. His disagreement was noted and is perfectly acceptable to me and did not remove him as moderator. However, he indicated, in clear conscience he was unwilling to as moderator supress further discussion or re-ignition of that subject. I indicated as administrator it had been given ample time for expression of views (5 months) and 200+ replies and that i felt that this forum was not the appropriate place for a more prolonged or further discussions of such a topic that i believe was more appropriately handled on other forums, blogs, or other media. (My call as Administrator). He resigned because he could not in good conscience abide by that. I respect his right to do so for conscience sake though i wished he could have gotten past that as an issue. Afterwords, as a member feeling strongly about the issue, and in my view, in defiance to my known instructions, he posted again on banning high capacity magazines and i unapproved that message. (made it invisible to members) notified him by PM of why and refused to make it a public discussion of his action and my unapproving of his post. Hence he announced his goodbye which saddens me greatly. I neither seek agreement nor disagreement with my decision to limit the discussions on this forum whether on gun control, politics, aliens, conspiratorial theories or other subjects i feel are either better handled elsewhere or are not tied with a clear link more closely to our mission here as a PC internet forum. That decision is simply not open to public discussion here. While this forum is for the benefit of members, members do not set the direction or mission statement for this forum. Those who think that this somehow limits diversity of opinions are free to believe such. I have to the best of my knowledge, never restricted nor censored anyone for their religious views on this forum but i certainly will not tolerate members refusing to follow repeated moderation instructions and in those cases will unapprove posts and or issue cautions or warnings. JosephM(As Admin) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulS Posted January 29, 2013 Share Posted January 29, 2013 Steve, I mean his own convictions in the sense that as George stated, as a matter of his own conscience, that he felt he could no longer participate in this forum. That's why George left - because he chose too. Ron, I never suggested that George was not respectful. Please re-read my post. Whilst I believe George would understand respectability, I, like you, believe he didn't/couldn't accept the final decision, evidenced by his voluntary departure. Like you, I don't know all that happened behind the scenes so I am not going to start making assumptions. At the end of the day George decided to sign off without an in-depth explanation as to why, as is his right and choice, albeit a shame for us left wondering. I am saddened that you think the matter came down to a win or lose situation for the Administrator. Perhaps you should discuss the matter with him. I am certain that vigorous debate is still, and will continue to be, on this forum, Unfortunately without George's input, much to our disappointment. I, as I'm sure you would and as i know Joseph would, would welcome George back in an instance. If anyone has a private line to George, may I ask them to communicate to George that many of us are disappointed that he no longer felt he could participate here, and we hope he returns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murmsk Posted January 29, 2013 Share Posted January 29, 2013 May I ask why are topics such as gun control off limits here? These are topics we are having in our faith communities. These are topics we should be having in our faith communities. steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murmsk Posted January 29, 2013 Share Posted January 29, 2013 If it is the decision of the moderator board that this place chooses to not discuss anything political in nature , while I think it is a mistake, I can live with it. If however where ones opinion falls has any effect on the decision making process then there is a problem. steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JosephM Posted January 29, 2013 Share Posted January 29, 2013 Steve, Not off limits but limited the same as politics, certain sports and such which are also topics of the faith community but where heated or prolonged discussions are better left to other forums. We are not everything to everybody. We have people who want to come here to talk about being a vegetarian and animal rights which is also part of some faith communities. We allow casual mention but attempt to keep focus on our main mission statement. Joseph Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JosephM Posted January 29, 2013 Share Posted January 29, 2013 If it is the decision of the moderator board that this place chooses to not discuss anything political in nature , while I think it is a mistake, I can live with it. If however where ones opinion falls has any effect on the decision making process then there is a problem. steve Agreed. It does look bad on that point. Perhaps that is where trust and past experiences, integrity, mutual respect and knowledge of another has to come in to play. Joseph Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vridar Posted January 29, 2013 Share Posted January 29, 2013 Steve, I mean his own convictions in the sense that as George stated, as a matter of his own conscience, that he felt he could no longer participate in this forum. That's why George left - because he chose too. Ron, I never suggested that George was not respectful. Please re-read my post. Whilst I believe George would understand respectability, I, like you, believe he didn't/couldn't accept the final decision, evidenced by his voluntary departure. Like you, I don't know all that happened behind the scenes so I am not going to start making assumptions. At the end of the day George decided to sign off without an in-depth explanation as to why, as is his right and choice, albeit a shame for us left wondering. I am saddened that you think the matter came down to a win or lose situation for the Administrator. Perhaps you should discuss the matter with him. I am certain that vigorous debate is still, and will continue to be, on this forum, Unfortunately without George's input, much to our disappointment. I, as I'm sure you would and as i know Joseph would, would welcome George back in an instance. If anyone has a private line to George, may I ask them to communicate to George that many of us are disappointed that he no longer felt he could participate here, and we hope he returns. Paul, I apologize if I mis-interpreted the intent of your post. George, IMO, understands respect and most likely understood the policies to keep the forum respectable. But, there must have been some disagreement what was respectful and George evidently decided he couldn't continue to post under this strict policy of respect. Goodbye my friends, Ron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minsocal Posted February 17, 2013 Share Posted February 17, 2013 George gave it a good run for the money. I see his point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minsocal Posted February 17, 2013 Share Posted February 17, 2013 After due consideration, I am joining George in exiting this site for the last time. So long, all. Maybe another day. Myron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murmsk Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 blessing to you Myron steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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