8 Points Of Moderate Christianity

[BeachOfEden]

Here, I wrote out 8 points I 'think' match the views of basic Moderate christianity...tell me what you think, and if you think anything should be changed or re-worded, please share! thanks! BeachofEden~

 

The 8 Points

Of Moderate Christianity

 

By calling ourselves moderate, we mean that we are Christians who:

 

 

1. Feel Jesus is Savior for the world, but do not judge those outside this relm as eternally lost; nor that there is no

possible fair second chance. We reserve and preserve the belief that God is more generous in grace rather than less.

We use the example of the repentive thief for this reasoning.

 

2. Recognize the faithfulness of other people who may belong to other faiths,

and view such as alternative faiths rather than calling them 'cults.'

 

3. Inviting :

 

Moderate Christians and questioning skeptics,

Protestants and non

females and males,

those of all races and cultures, and

those of all classes and abilities.

 

4. Believe that men and women who are attracted to the same sex,

deserve the basic human rights as those attracted to the opposite sex

have... And we put this human right above any individual views or

questions regarding their sexual practices in their own personal lives...

 

5. Think that the way we treat one another and other people surpasses doctrinal issues; (surpassing trinity verses unity debates

or the nature of eternal life through God's Kingdom.)

 

6. Believes hell means SHEOL=grave and seperation from God and NOT a literal eternal place of fire torment

 

7.See ourselves as a Christian; balance between complete non-literal 100% mythicalism on the left and rigid

pharisee-like fundamentalism without social justice on the right.

[des]

Beach, it looks pretty good. I don't know any more moderate Christians that I'd feel comfortable showing that to, but I think that it looks pretty good anyway. Might try that Traditional Christian forum on beliefnet?

 

I don't think you need to stick to 8 points per se, I see some repetition here-- maybe not.

So 7 points is fine, very Biblical in fact. :-)

 

I think progressives would mostly go along with pts. 1 (though what judgement is, is another story); 2; 3; 4; 5; 6 (perhaps more so). And some would say 7 as well.

 

 

--des

[jamesAMDG]

Here, I wrote out 8 points I 'think' match the views of basic Moderate christianity...tell me what you think, and if you think anything should be changed or re-worded, please share! thanks! BeachofEden~

 

The 8 Points

Of Moderate Christianity

 

By calling ourselves moderate, we mean that we are Christians who:

 

 

1. Feel Jesus is Savior for the world, but do not judge those outside this relm as eternally lost; nor that there is no

    possible fair second chance. We reserve and preserve the belief that God is more generous in grace rather than less.

    We use the example of the repentive thief for this reasoning.

 

2. Recognize the faithfulness of other people who may belong to other faiths,

and view such as alternative faiths rather than calling them 'cults.'

 

3. Inviting :

 

Moderate Christians and questioning skeptics,

Protestants and non

females and males,

those of all races and cultures, and

those of all classes and abilities.

 

4. Believe that men and women who are attracted to the same sex,

deserve the basic human rights as those attracted to the opposite sex

have... And we put this human right above any individual views or

questions regarding their sexual practices in their own personal lives...

 

5. Think that the way we treat one another and other people surpasses doctrinal issues; (surpassing trinity verses unity debates

or the nature of eternal life through God's Kingdom.)

 

6. Believes hell means SHEOL=grave and seperation from God and NOT a literal eternal place of fire torment

 

7.See ourselves as a Christian; balance between complete non-literal 100% mythicalism on the left and rigid

    pharisee-like fundamentalism without social justice on the right.

I think there are two interesting thing about what you wrote, BeachofEden (although I suppose you can already guess I don't agree with them)

 

It seems unnecessary at best, and belies a strange fixation at worst, to include point 4 in the list.

 

4. Believe that men and women who are attracted to the same sex,

deserve the basic human rights as those attracted to the opposite sex

have... And we put this human right above any individual views or

questions regarding their sexual practices in their own personal lives...

 

I'm not sure why so many people who call themselves progressives or self0identify on the left are so concerned about this. I don't think anyone has said they don't deserve basic human rights. I think the questions is based on what humans are and in what way they can and should be used responsably. As far as I know, sexual orientation is NO BARRIER to marriage. Provided a man and a woman are of legal age and not married to anyone else they can be married.

 

 

But even more interesting, is this

 

7.See ourselves as a Christian; balance between complete non-literal 100% mythicalism on the left and rigid

    pharisee-like fundamentalism without social justice on the right.

 

That what is defined here as "moderate" is called Christian as opposed to the other reference points. Why is that those who are on the "right" or are "conservative" or "orthodox" are pharisees and you can you please explain to me how you know I don't believe in "social justice" I have never said that progressives are not sincere, or any other number of things., and yet you know what those who aren't like you hold in their hearts as a corporate group. Weird

 

Pax Christi,

In the Sacred Heart of Jesus, through the Immaculate Heart of Mary

 

jamesAMDG

Edited February 10, 2005 by jamesAMDG

[BeachOfEden]

You are replying to my post as 'if' I wrote it TO YOU and yet 'I' don;t even know YOU are WHO YOU ARE. What I am guessing is that you consider yourself proudly on "The right" and thus proudly embrace the term or concpet of being conservative and/or Fundamental in nature? Beyound this? I don;t know what it is in this document that you have a complaint against. Is it the gay issue? Is it women's rights?

[des]

I think the "gay issue" is only an issue as conservatives have made it an issue. Most Americans (and no doubt most Europeans and Canadians) believe in everything short of marriage for gays (not sure what the stats are on civil unions). However, gays are not allowed in most churches to do things like become pastors, teach Sunday School (might convert them to gayness ya know). I think most progressives and even most moderates dislike this position. Many gays have been hurt by churches. We didn't make the issue, we're responding to the issue. I feel rather it is fundamentalists that have made this a peculiar focus, making it more important than other (as they say) sins (which I would not agree). Give me a Biblical answer and I can show where the Bible justiifies slavery.

 

  As far as I know, sexual orientation is NO BARRIER to marriage.  Provided a man and a woman are of legal age and not married to anyone else they can be married.

 

Sure a gay man can marry a straight woman (or a gay one for that matter) happens all the time. I wouldn't argue that those marriages are so hot though. '

 

That what is defined here as "moderate" is called Christian as opposed to the other reference points.  Why is that those who are on the "right" or are "conservative" or "orthodox" are pharisees and you can you please explain to me how you know I don't believe in "social justice"  I have never said that progressives are not sincere, or any other number of things., and yet you know what those who aren't like you hold in their hearts as a corporate group.  Weird

 

I wouldn't have used the word "Pharisee". And the Catholic church unlike other more conservative traditions (not all Catholics are conservative either) has a very long hx of social justice.

 

Many of us here have personal experiences with fundamentalists in our families that have not been so pleasant. I think if you read my posts you will see this is definitely the case for me. Many of us have been harangued by fundamentalists who bother us with their attempts to save us, even if we state we aren't interested or are "already saved". I'm sorry that it is hard to not take these comments of Beach's personally, but I doubt they were directed towards you anyway. (I personally have much enjoyed Darby's comments, particularly. And find it quite refreshing to be able to discuss these various things without actually debating them.)

 

But some people HAVE said that we aren't sincere. I was told by someone that UCC, the demonation I attend, wasn't a real church just kind of a social hour, etc and that kind of thing. I have read this stated about various moderate to liberal/progressive churches and groups. So these things ARE said, maybe YOU haven't said them-- but they are said.

 

I think Beach is attempting to make a distinction between someone who believes in most of the stories of the Bible as truly historical and not as mythos (for example the resurrection, virgin birth, etc), as some of us progressives do. However, does not view the Bible as inerrant and literal.

 

--des

[BeachOfEden]

Des:

 

"I wouldn't have used the word "Pharisee"..."

 

Sorry..but I did NOT tag any precise denomination. So yeah, if that person incerted "Catholic" in here, then that was his or her doing and NOT mine. I did not name any precise faith group by name.

 

"And the Catholic church unlike other more conservative traditions (not all Catholics are conservative either) has a very long hx of social justice."

 

VERY,VERY GOOD point. There IS an actual LIBERAL CATHOLIC CHURCH..though granted it is NOT reconiged as lagit by the Roman catholic Church..but then again are ANY of us Progressive or Liberal Christians considered lagit by ANY on the right? It is lucky for Catholics that they DO have this liberal option to their faith. many of us how have come from other fundamental faith group backgrounds don;t have such alternatives offered to our faith group backgrounds.

 

"Many of us here have personal experiences with fundamentalists in our families that have not been so pleasant. I think if you read my posts you will see this is definitely the case for me. Many of us have been harangued by fundamentalists who bother us with their attempts to save us, even if we state we aren't interested or are "already saved". I'm sorry that it is hard to not take these comments of Beach's personally, but I doubt they were directed towards you anyway."

 

Yeah, like I said 'I' do NOT know You, Darb, and I did not even know WHAT faith group background you belong )ed) to. But yeah, Des is right. There are a VAST variety of ex-conservatives here. I HAVE heard from at least '3' Catholics here in the past, though I don;t remember their names, but we also have other ex-fundamentalist...such as Ex-Southern Baptists, Ex-LDS, Ex-Christian Science and Ex-JW,ect.

[fatherman]

Beach,

 

I think you have an interesting idea. I was brought up in a decidedly "moderate" family (Presby, Democrat). For my Dad, especially, being a moderate is not just riding on the fence or being wishy-washy (as I used to think), it is an intentional lifestyle. Being moderate to him means seeking balance. He believes in the principle of conserving while keeping an open mind about change. I've been critical of him over the years because I believed he should be more decisive, but as Freud said, "Neurosis is the inability to tolerate ambiguity." Moderates have a remarkable ability to tolerate ambiguity.

 

The wording of your points will not appeal to moderates. Many of the points contain veiled criticism of other Christian groups or are specific political stances. I've attended several moderate churches and I've noticed that their mission statements are never a list of political or critical statements. They are usually very traditional simple statements like:

 

Responding to God's call,

we seek to live lives shaped by Christ,

to reach people for Christ

and develop deeply committed Christians.

 

or

 

We are a servant people

Called to be the light of the world.

We come together as members of one body.

To worship, study, fellowship, witness and serve.

In response to God's love in Jesus Christ,

We promise to care for and support each other

As we share God's love with all people.

[BeachOfEden]

Yeah, I don;t think there are 'wishy-washy'..but these vauge statements you quoted do NOTHING to tell us where they stand on social justice issues. I can understand that they wish to choose their words carefully but they should not be so affraid of the right as to kiss there "BLEEP."

[Cynthia]

I respectfully disagree Beach - The statements are general in a way that encompasses timeless priorities and values. Social issues come and go... religion or spirituality should have a consistent approach to interaction with the world regardless of the current social fads. Jesus is about Radical Compassion. Unearned, undeserved, un-understandable. Whether a tax collector, a fallen woman, a slave, a homosexual, an AIDS infected person, or blessed people like me who have time to sit at a computer and think without worrying about subsistence. God is timeless; christianity is timeless; people are bound by time and culture. These statements help us to step out of those bounds and to see our actions/times/beliefs with greater perspective.

[des]

Beach, I also disagree. Perhaps you are more of a progressive/liberal/radical than you want to let on. :-) Perhaps your views on things like miracles are more peripheral than other views you have. Perhaps you are also a bit more firey passionate type. My guess is that moderates aren't generally passionate or firey-- not a bad thing, God knows we need such at this point. :-)

 

To be moderate means you are moderate. It doesn't mean that you have no beliefs or take no stands but you tend to be moderate on your stands. To be moderate is as much of a statement of where you are on something than anything else.

 

I agree with Fatherman about the moderates, who I admit I haven't talked to that much. It isn't wishy washy if it is what you actually believe.

 

Have you read the book, "On Paradise Drive" by Brooks. The book has great satiric pieces on suburbia in America. You are really laughing at these crazy people, but he turns it on you and you figure out these are really the sanest people, the Nation builders, moderates, etc.

I suppose we are all laughable. (hence my silly dog avatar). :-)

 

--des

Edited February 12, 2005 by des