cherishthirdeye Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 I've had something that has been weighing on my mind... I had a good friend of mine commit suicide and I've always had anxiety about what may have happened to him. After the time of his death I had an extremely insensitive Christian tell me that my friend was in hell for taking his own life. I thought that was a completely inappropriate thing to say given the circumstances. That is just a horrible thing to say in my opinion. To think that my friend was so tortured to end his life and then to think that he is now in hell... Despicable. What do you think about this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glintofpewter Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 For some the burden of a particular life is more than they can bear. For others it is not. In any case nothing can separate either of them from the embrace of the One who loves beyond all understanding. People who speak their own truths without attention to compassion are ... rude and insensitive. Dutch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeorgeW Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 Despicable. What do you think about this? Like you - despicable. George Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cherishthirdeye Posted March 30, 2012 Author Share Posted March 30, 2012 I really can't stand it when people say things like... ''Suicide is the cowards way out'' That to me is not right at all... I think it takes a lot of courage to do something that drastic and thrust yourself into the unknown like that. To be completely unafraid of death is pretty uncowardly if you ask me. I want to believe my friend is not suffering anymore. I'd like to believe anyone who takes their life is no longer suffering... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeorgeW Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 I am confident that your friend is no longer suffering. When I hear comments like those, I am reminded of Jesus had to say, "Judge not, that you be not judged." (Mat 7:1) George Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulS Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 Cherishthirdeye, Yep, despicable sums it up well. I used to be a police officer and have attended the scenes of probably 20+ suicides. I think those that condemn a suicidal person (either to hell, or as a coward) have probably never known a suicide vitcim and have absolutely no idea of the pain and angst these people are going through. If they had ever looked into a suicide they would see how hurt, confused, despondent, anxious and in pain these people are (a lot of that comes out in hindsight because often the victim keeps much of this to themselves). Often friends and family are suprised by a suicide because they didn't see it coming, but that's not their fault. Closer to home, my neighbour has suffered depression and anxiety for the last several years. Two months ago he ended his life leaving behind his wife and three teenage children. He wasn't a coward - he was in a dark hole that he felt he couldn't get out of. You friend was not a coward but somebody who needed help but felt there was no other choice. I would like to think he is getting that help now, much like a child in pain is lovingly received by its parent - "It's okay my child, the pain is over now, let me cuddle and love you". Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inthedark Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 Suicide is the final solution for people who see no other alternative, for whatever their reasons might be. It is neither cowardly or an act which condemns a person to go to hell. Heaven and hell are here with us right now, and I would suggest that the person that sees suicide as the solution is already experiencing hell whilst still with us. Once gone, there is nothing, like there was nothing before we were born. They are once more part of the ether, the universe, just as they have always been and they always will be. I hope those left behind find peace. PaulS, I am a serving officer and continue to deal with suicide here and there. It's just very sad for all concerned. Regards Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yvonne Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 Insensitive comments like that make me feel ill. Most Christians say God is love, but what does the belief that God would send anybody to eternal torment say about God? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JenellYB Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 The only thing I think could be said is consistent in all suicide is that for whatever reason, they person percieved the life ahead for them is one they feel is worse than no life at all. It is error to try to assgin some set of what all suicides and thinking or feeling or what their reasoning is or what it indicates about their character or anything else. There can be as many different reasons for deciding to act to take one's own life as there might be for taking the life of some other. For every one, those things are different and unique. the only constant is, non-existance has become ultimately preferable to the exisitnce they ancticipate. That state may be for any number of reasons, the person may have come to it over a long period of time, or it may be the response in the moment to something...sometimes, it is something the person might have a chance to 'get through', helped to see a better future, sometimes not. Sometimes one has just reached the end of their limits for pain. I've known a few that came to it after many years of suffering, that might have been either physical suffering, or mental/emotional suffering. I've known that that have come to it as a 'reasoned decision,' a 'choice' to spare not only themselves a future of pain and hardship, but pain and hardship on others, as in case of a terminal disease for which there is only a painful, and expensive, future ahead without hope of recovery, that would leave their loved ones emotionally, physically, and financially drained when the end finally came, if allowed to run its course. I think Dr. Kavorkian was a man that was just out of place in time. Some may remember the movie, "they shoot horses, don't they?" I've had to make the choice and take the action of humanely ending the life of many suffering animals, knowing in not only my mind, but my heart, it was the kindest thing I could do for them. I believe that is sometimes as true of humans, but our culture, our society, isn't ready for that right now. I certainly don't think God "condemns" one that has made that decision. Only that person and god know what was in their mind, in their heart. And I think God has compassion for any hurting that badly. Jenell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeorgeW Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 I don't recall, is there any specific prohibition against suicide in the Bible? Killing (in spite of the bad translation of the 6th commandment) was not banned. There are many examples of sanctioned killing in the Bible; enemies, including their innocent children, capital punishment for even minor (in my opinion) offenses, etc. So, why the fuss over suicide? George Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulS Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 As far as I'm aware there is none, George. Indeed several characters in the bible seem to suffer depression and actually ask God to kill them. I think some interpret the 6th commandment 'thou shalt not murder' to include murdering oneself, but the rest is up to one's interpretation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeorgeW Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 Paul, The 6th Commandment is used by both liberals and conservatives selectively to justify their values about killing. Liberals cite it to oppose capital punishment, war and the like. Conservatives cite it to oppose abortion, self defense, and maybe suicide. Do you recall any specific biblical characters who asked God to kill them? George Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulS Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 George, Couldn't remember them off the top of my head so I quickly resorted to google. Saul commits suicide in 1 Samuel 31 by falling on his sword. Moses in Numbers 11 asks God to kill him if this is how God is going to treat him. Elijah asks God to kill him in I Kings 19:4 ...and he requested for himself that he might die, and said, It is enough; now, O Jehovah, take away my life; for I am not better than my fathers. Jonah 4:1-11...God changed his mind and did not destroy the city. Jonah was so angry at God's display of mercy that he asked God to kill him, "for it is better for me to die than to live!" He repeated the same request to God on the next day. There seems to be quite a few. I won't list every one. Hope that's of interest. Cheers Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeorgeW Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 Paul, Interesting. Good work. George Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cherishthirdeye Posted March 31, 2012 Author Share Posted March 31, 2012 Deleted Duplicate Post ... JosephM(as Moderator) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cherishthirdeye Posted March 31, 2012 Author Share Posted March 31, 2012 I don't think the Bible says much about suicide... A lot of people I have discussed this with have told me that a person who commits suicide goes to hell because they throw away God's gift. Also how someone mentioned about the commandment that you shouldn't kill. They take that to mean you can't kill yourself just as you shouldn't kill another person. Then I've also had people say that a person who commits suicide is going to hell because they obviously aren't right with God. Because no one who is blessed with the holy spirit would ever do such a thing... No Christian would ever commit suicide because life is too important and God's promise to us is too great to just throw away... I just can't believe that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeorgeW Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 Also how someone mentioned about the commandment that you shouldn't kill. They take that to mean you can't kill yourself just as you shouldn't kill another person. The 6th commandment, IMO, does not prohibit killing, it prohibits murder (i.e. illegal killing under Jewish law). The Hebrew word ratsach (n the 6th Commandment) clearly doesn't mean killing in general. In other contexts, it is used to mean the unjustified taking of another's life. Another Hebrew word, harag, comes much closer to the general 'kill' meaning. As an example this is used to describe Cain taking Abel's life which was, according to the text, sanctioned by God. I think that had the author of the 6th Commandment intended killing in general, he would have used harag. So, the question then becomes, what acts constitute murder under Jewish law in the 1st millennium BCE? As Paul pointed out above, there are a number of instances of biblical characters contemplating or committing suicide without divine reprimand. Therefore, I think it would be hard to argue that the 6th Commandment covers suicide. Of course, the question also arises as to whether 1st millennium Bedouin law is applicable in a modern, industrialized world. George Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soma Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 The material world is where our bodies obtain life, ill health, unhappiness, confusion and death because our bodies came from dust and will return to dust. We all deal with it the best we can so we can't judge others only learn and apply our lessons to our life. I still think fondly of the poeple I know who committed suicide and I don't think it detracted from my thoughts of how great they were. The act is powerful and is a force that we can reflect on and learn from. We all have learned, relfected and have been inspired by Christ who some could argue died for us, a kind of suicide to the physical world. P.S. The movie about Jack Korvokian is very powerful and can help if you are confused about this subject. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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