minsocal Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 Generally, when moderators post, I stay away. Moved post from News area..............JM 9:20PM 06/06/2011 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JosephM Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 Generally, when moderators post, I stay away. Myron, Is this a complaint? Or item for discussion? How does this comment relate to the question of this thread of what this site considers an uncompassionate post? Please let me know so i can determine if it needs moving to a proper area so you can make your point or state your view. JosephM (as Admin) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minsocal Posted June 7, 2011 Author Share Posted June 7, 2011 Myron, Is this a complaint? Or item for discussion? How does this comment relate to the question of this thread of what this site considers an uncompassionate post? Please let me know so i can determine if it needs moving to a proper area so you can make your point or state your view. JosephM (as Admin) Joseph, You may have made my point, I'm afraid. Why are there so many moderator posts? Conservatives are not welcome to compassion? Myron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JosephM Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 Joseph, You may have made my point, I'm afraid. I'm sorry Myron i still don't understand your point but i assume you are not pleased. Why are there so many moderator posts? Conservatives are not welcome to compassion? Myron This first question i believe i can answer. We have about 500 new posts a month now lots of members applying, spammers etc. and it has required a considerable amount of my time the past two years. I needed more help so I appointed 3 more moderators to dedicate to individual areas. All three i picked were heavy posters on this board with high peer ratings prior to becoming a moderator. I see no reason to restrict their posting as members just because they have accepted some expanded responsibilities to help. Hence there are alot of moderator posts as members of course. I hope that answers your question and you are welcome to voice your concerns. The question of Conservatives are not welcome to compassion? i do not understand the specifics of your questions unless you are referring to stv2k being banned. If so, there was much behind the scenes an observer of this forum may not be aware of. Therefore i do not understand why or what you refer to for you to ask that question. Perhaps you will explain so i can respond. Joseph Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minsocal Posted June 7, 2011 Author Share Posted June 7, 2011 I'm sorry Myron i still don't understand your point but i assume you are not pleased. This first question i believe i can answer. We have about 500 new posts a month now lots of members applying, spammers etc. and it has required a considerable amount of my time the past two years. I needed more help so I appointed 3 more moderators to dedicate to individual areas. All three i picked were heavy posters on this board with high peer ratings prior to becoming a moderator. I see no reason to restrict their posting as members just because they have accepted some expanded responsibilities to help. Hence there are alot of moderator posts as members of course. I hope that answers your question and you are welcome to voice your concerns. The question of Conservatives are not welcome to compassion? i do not understand the specifics of your questions unless you are referring to stv2k being banned. If so, there was much behind the scenes an observer of this forum may not be aware of. Therefore i do not understand why or what you refer to for you to ask that question. Joseph Joseph, Whether I get upset by a conservative response is my is my self-responsibilty ... or I thought it was. I can get just as irritated with a fundamentlist liberal. I thought that was the point of being progressive. Perhaps I was wrong. Myron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JosephM Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 Joseph, Whether I get upset by a conservative response is my is my self-responsibilty ... or I thought it was. I can get just as irritated with a fundamentlist liberal. I thought that was the point of being progressive. Perhaps I was wrong. Myron Sorry Myron, you may have to be more direct with me. I welcome your response but i am not able to put this conversation together. What has been done here that appears to you that there is a lack of compassion on our part? I certainly must have said or done something to bring this on but i am at this moment ignorant of what it was/is. Joseph Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minsocal Posted June 7, 2011 Author Share Posted June 7, 2011 Sorry Myron, you may have to be more direct with me. I welcome your response but i am not able to put this conversation together. What has been done here that appears to you that there is a lack of compassion on our part? I certainly must have said or done something to bring this on but i am at this moment ignorant of what it was/is. Joseph Joseph, Forgive my brevity as I type with one hand most of the time. The notion here is rather old, it is called "philosopical restraint". When people come to the board and read various posts, they see titles. Those titles carry weight, whether intended by the moderators or not. I have a "label" attatched to my ID, and I do not think anyone asked me if I agreed with it. I grew up in a progressive environment. Speaking out with intensity is my nature. Compassion has no conditions. I try to keep one foot outside of religion so that I can maintain a dialogue with other groups that understand a shared meaning of the term "progressive". When I hear a young anthropolgist restrain her liberal "agenda" and simply report what she has discovered in other people's narratives, I think to myself ... that's it. When a young Phd. candidate changes his thesis upon listening to the common folk involved in the civil right movement, I think to myself ... that's it. When an atheist uses the Bible to support issues of social justice, I think to myself ... that's it. Myron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glintofpewter Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 Hi, Myron, I see that you have contrasted the agenda of an anthropologist with "the peoples narratives", the preconceptions of a PhD candidate with the common folk and the prejudging of an atheist (because of a label) with her using what works - in the this case the Bible - in the pursuit of social justice. Agendas, preconceptions, labels stop one from seeing truth and doing what is right. What I understand is that "Progressive" seeks to overcome or reject those things that create class, status and authority. Do I get it - what you are saying? Do you have any suggestions for how to signal the roles of those who have a responsibility to carry out moderation of the board thereby creating an environment conducive to intense, but civil debate? There are two emphases of philosophical restraint: avoidance of operating from a certain status of intellect or authority and accepting the responsibility for carrying out a judicial obligations. There is a tension here that guides the moderation of the Board. Do you think that moderation here is operating from a position of implied status because of the labels? What would you recommend as a corrective? Thanks for the input Dutch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tariki Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 Generally, when moderators post, I stay away. Moved post from News area..............JM 9:20PM 06/06/2011 Having just switched from "sheep" to "goat" - or from common or garden member to moderator - I'm not really sure if I am responsible for anyone "staying away". Minsocal, , myron, to be honest - irrespective of just who are referring to - I would hold my hand up and admit to having certain "buttons pressed" by certain posters, normally of the "conservative" persuasion. No doubt this is obvious at times, and personally, on my own journey, I take to heart many of the posts of Soma, who seeks to create calm upon the troubled waters by quoting relevant passages from the NT. Like you, myron, Soma does not specifically name names, its more a case of "he - or she - who has eyes to see let them see." Well, I often see. I participate on many forums, most far more "robust" than here. On some, any post I might choose to make that speaks of the positive side of spirituality is more often than not met with derision, jokes concerning "spirits" - the alcoholic kind - and even the use of words that would not see the light of day over here. No buttons are pressed, I genuinely smile, even join in in my own restrained way. We all have our buttons, thats what I am trying to say. Sorry. Again, I have see forums destroyed by a lack of moderation. On others, certain posters have thrown in the towel, driven away by what they see as a constant "flaming" - an example, recently, on Christian Forums (the World Religions sub-section) where a Jewish guy has given up, tired of the constant (as he sees it) "baiting" that the Moderators deem acceptable. (Just a few weeks ago I had occasion to remark that this persons posts gave more evidence of the "spirit of Christ" than that of many Christians, but that what just my own perspective) So here we are on The Progressive Christianity Forum. The debate section is indeed open to those who do not share the "progressive" perspective, and the implication of the various headings of other sections is that it is not totally "safe". Yet as I see it, a certain openness to genuine debate and exchange of views should be evident in all, a willingness to participate in genuine dialogue. Such dialogue, I will admit, is coloured by the fact that while many here who support the 8 points Of PC have - as far as the Conservative/Fundamentalist viewpoint is concerned - been there and got the T-shirt and are seeking to move on.......there are others who have seen no need to move on. As I say, this cannot help but create a certain tension, which is what the moderators seek to address as best as they/we are able. Personally, I believe in dialogue, genuine dialogue, which for me implies having a degree of vulnerability and openness to change. To be blunt, those who demonstrate again and again that they have no sympathy at all for the PC position, who appear to be here only to put forward their own perspective, need to recognise that if they debate in a manner deemed abrasive to others, then they will be censured, even banned. To me, this is not to demonstrate any lack of compassion, but only to protect these forums from denigrating into the unwholesome free-for-all that I have been unfortunate enough to witness on other forums. All the best Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeorgeW Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 I guess I will offer my 2 cents. First, Myron, I sincerely urge you not to stay away. Moderators are no more authoritative on the subjects under discussion than anyone else. The job, as I understand it, is largely twofold (someone correct me if this is wrong): First is just housekeeping; Second is assuring that the discussions are, at least, loosely related to PC and are courteous and respectful. Since becoming a participant, I have been impressed with the moderation. I have been involved, unhappily, in another lightly monitored forum in which the discussions often deviated widely from the purpose of the forum and the discourse was often snarky, sometimes disrespectful and occasionally abusive. I accepted Joseph's request to help moderate one section of this forum reluctantly and agreed in order to relief him of some of the administrative burden. As to the titles assigned to participants, that is something I wondered about when I initially became a member. I don't know what the value of this, but I think identifying those who are monitors is worthwhile in the interest of full disclosure not of conferring authoritative status. George Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest billmc Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 Joseph does often add something to his posts along the lines of "as Admin," which is supposed to give a bit of weight to a moderator function. At the same time, I can't help but to think that a moderator's post carries a bit more theological/philosophical/spiritual weight than "the rest of us." Sorry, but I can't help but think so. IMO, these people are picked for this function precisely because they DO agree with the philosophy of PC. So when they post, that comes through, at least for me. No matter how much they might say "it seems to me" or "IMO," they do, in some fashion, represent the official posture of TCPC. It is probably way too late now, and it would be a hassle, but perhaps it would have been good to have the mods have two login IDs - one for topic posting along with "the rest of us" and one for the actual mod/admin functions where the gavel has to, unfortunately, come down. Still, all in all, I think things are pretty good here. I've been on a lot of worse forums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JosephM Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 Bill, Thanks for your comments. The reality from my experience is you are probably right in the sense of others perception that "a moderator's post carries a bit more theological/philosophical/spiritual weight than " the rest of us"" . Of course i don't personally believe it does and agree with George that what moderators post as members by no means is to be more authoritative than anyone else, But what people perceive is their own reality so i would not argue the point. I try to always use "as Moderator" or "as Admin" when i am speaking from an authoritative position and then it is never on what is theological true or not but more in the administration of the functions and authority assigned to me. It certainly doesn't make me 'right" or "correct" but nevertheless it does give me the final word on many things. Looking back, It would not have been a bad idea to have two different log in Id's as you suggested but over time i don't know if even that could avoid such feelings. Perhaps dialog such as this is not so bad a thing and hopefully our actions will speak loud enough to confirm our words and feelings. Perhaps everyone has somewhat of an unconscious belief that their beliefs are "more correct or right" than the other that comes through. Anyway, i certainly hope in my heart that, though offences will come at times, that my conscious view and actions are a reflection of what is deeper and that that deeper regards those here in contact with me of equal value in God's humanity. Of course, in a practical sense, it doesn't seem to me efficient or appropriate to the operation of this board to ask other than the moderators here and sometimes on occasions possibly another member their opinion before i take action. Joseph Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JosephM Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 Joseph, Whether I get upset by a conservative response is my is my self-responsibilty ... or I thought it was. I can get just as irritated with a fundamentlist liberal. I thought that was the point of being progressive. Perhaps I was wrong. Myron Myron, Thanks for your response as i was at first a bit puzzled. Yes, I agree it is a self-responsibility. It is also acceptable here and part of being human and allowed within the constraints of certain boundaries and defined etiquette. Forgive my brevity as I type with one hand most of the time. The notion here is rather old, it is called "philosopical restraint". When people come to the board and read various posts, they see titles. Those titles carry weight, whether intended by the moderators or not. I have a "label" attatched to my ID, and I do not think anyone asked me if I agreed with it. I think Bill touched on the moderator label a bit and you are correct. You have a system generated label attached to your ID of "Senior Contributing Member" based solely on your experience on this board based on number of posts. ( without judgement of the quality of posts) And yes, you are correct no one asked you if you agreed with it. If you will remember, you were in the past part of a thread here in this section where Granmpawombat complained of his label since his post count was low but time here great. We changed it to Old Timer which satisfied him. I only had a couple documented objections to the label system from our entire membership. I think that shows not only a willingness to comply with reasonable requests on the part of a few. I would be happy to consider a more appropriate title if you object to the one generated. I find labels present on most all forums such as these and personally i don't put much weight on them. I grew up in a progressive environment. Speaking out with intensity is my nature. Compassion has no conditions. (balance of quote of Post 5 snipped for brevity) I would agree that compassion / love is unconditional or at least we agree compassion has no conditions as you have said. However, it seems to me, actions arising out of compassion do not always look like compassion to all, including outside observers. Many times, in my view, compassion for others dictates that the good of the community / whole should not be sacrificed for one. To that one, where is compassion seen? Now, on speaking out with intensity, that seems to me also as progressive. When that speaking crosses the defined guidelines defined in the thread, "what is considered an uncompassionate post" then to me that seems not to promote healthy dialog in a forum such as this. Intensity is therefore acceptable here within the boundaries of respectful speech only. I hope i have at least responded clearly to what i now perceive was your concern although i see i am a bit verbose with words.. Joseph Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JenellYB Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 my own humble input....I am most favorably impressed with the quality of moderating here, and find contributions to threads by those also in position as moderators contribute much to the quality I'm enjoying of discussions here. Jenell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minsocal Posted June 8, 2011 Author Share Posted June 8, 2011 Joseph, I'm fine with things now, having read your response. Myron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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