halinsalem Posted April 19, 2011 Share Posted April 19, 2011 [i just ordered two books from Amazon.com on the subject of “Reincarnation”. Both of these books were authored by ‘doctors’, that is one is an M.D. and the other is probably a Ph.D. It was stated that the two have worked together and have taken a scientific attitude towards the subject (they do not use hypnosis). The two are Ian Stevenson, M.D. and Jim B. Tucker, Ph.D. As I understand, the subject of Reincarnation is absolutely forbidden by Fundamental Christians, believed by some Christians, believed by some Jewish sects, and is taken for granted by Buddhists, Hindus, Jains, and some other ‘eastern’ denominations. For me, some things are starting to come together. First, I read four books authored by Dr. Jacques Vallee, in which he explained his research on “Unexplained Aerial Objects” which turned out not to emphasize the aerial objects, but really the individual beings who were flying around the countryside in those ‘objects’. The fact that these mysterious creatures have been associated with the planet earth for about the same length of time as mankind seems significant. The fact that “they” do not come down and openly intermingle with the earthly population has to be considered; it is possible, of course, that some are here among us without our realizing it. Next step: The Ultimate Supreme Being, the Creator of this Universe, in my opinion, does not, and has never, micro-managed mankind on this planet. However, it is obvious there are beings who claim to represent Him and, in that capacity have, in the past, done their best to guide and influence the human population. The Jewish Bible (the Old Testament) called them “Angels”. The Torah was practically written by the Angels, there are dozens and dozens of verses following “The Lord Says_”. It is evident that all of the Old Testament was influenced by Angels or some similar divinely inspired environmental element. How about the New Testament? I was being somewhat facetious when I recently wrote in a comment “Jesus Christ had to be an Angel” but it makes sense. An ordinary human being could not have done all the miraculous things He did, so the early church bishops declared that He was “Divine” so that the stories about Him would be acceptable to the ‘man in the street’. If He is an Angel, then the ‘Second Coming’ is a very distinct possibility and we all will not go to Heaven, but Heaven will be created here on earth. This means that the ‘Rapture’ is just John Darby’s wishful thinking. Where does ‘Reincarnation’ fit in? If those Angels are really all “Souls” who come back from time to time as human beings on the planet earth it will explain several things we have been wondering about. It will explain their rabid interest in mankind’s activities. It will explain why they display some of the same faults that mankind has been exhibiting for thousands of years. It will explain why they do not intermingle on a day-by-day basis with the earthly population. Unfortunately, our ignorance will continue to outweigh our knowledge, so we will not have very many answers until we go across the line, spend some time as an Angel (will we qualify?), and then choose another set of parents. Does this mean that I fervently believe in Reincarnation and Angels? Not necessarily, but I do think the subjects are worthy of consideration and study. We have to be careful not to get caught up in “cultism” or “off the wall” fantasies. I very much appreciate those individuals who have the education, talent, and time to do the research on these subjects and then can publish their findings for our benefit. There are still a great many unanswered questions – we are just floundering around in the shallow end of the pool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
halinsalem Posted April 20, 2011 Author Share Posted April 20, 2011 I kind of feel that I am out on the back 40, trying to figure out what is making all the tracks in the mud, while everybody else is back at the farmhouse, drinking tea and warming their feet at the fireplace. Hal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeorgeW Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 I kind of feel that I am out on the back 40, trying to figure out what is making all the tracks in the mud, while everybody else is back at the farmhouse, drinking tea and warming their feet at the fireplace. Hal Hal, I would have commented, but this topic is just not my cup of 'tea.' But, don't be deterred. If it is an explanation that works for you, go for it and continue posting your thoughts. George Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick the Nevermet Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 Yeah, I was in a similar boat: I had nothing to add, but was curious what others would say. Whatever I may be able to talk intelligently about, angelology and discussions of the afterlife are not it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JosephM Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 Hal, I haven't commented either not because it isn't an interesting subject but because i have personally traveled that way before and found it a 'detour' that could fill a lifetime of research and study and questions and answers yet miss that which i was looking to apprehend. So while i am of the persuasion that there is a part of me that has been around longer than i can consciously recall, other than in bits and pieces, that serves as an explanation for some of my current predispositions, i find it of little use, to me personally, to pursue. That is not to say that some good may not come of it for you to pursue, only that i now find it of little value where i am. Joseph Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
halinsalem Posted April 20, 2011 Author Share Posted April 20, 2011 I received an E-mail this morning stating that I should get the books on April 26th, which is five days away. It will take another four or five days to go through them, so it will be a while before I can decide whether they are worth reviewing for the forum. Like I said before, I just feel like I am fiddling around in the shallow end of the pool. Trouble is, if I get to have a heart-to-heart talk with one of the Angels I may not be able to post the results. My best wishes to you all Hal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
halinsalem Posted May 2, 2011 Author Share Posted May 2, 2011 I purchased two books related to reincarnation: “Where Reincarnation and Biology Intersect” by Ian Stevenson, M.D. and “Life Before Life” by Jim B. Tucker, M.D. Both Dr. Stevenson and Dr. Tucker are child psychiatrists at the University of Virginia and have been involved in reincarnation research for a number of years. The research was originally funded by Chester Carlson, the inventor of the photocopying process that formed the basis for the Xerox Corporation. Later on, when Mr. Carlson passed away, his estate donated $1,000,000 to the University of Virginia for the explicit purpose of continuing the research into reincarnation. This fund was very reluctantly accepted by the University officials (the University administration did not want the university identified with this type of research). But, a million dollars is a million dollars. Dr. Stevenson has published numerous books on this subject, he has been doing research on this subject since 1958; the most prominent one is a 2000 page, two volume edition which contains some 2500 case studies. His book that I purchased is practically nothing but case histories taken from those two volumes. This book cost $47.72 and is interesting if you like case histories. Dr. Tucker, who is quite a bit younger than Dr. Stevenson, has written a book that is pretty much a summary of their research activity. I found this book very interesting (and it only cost $10.19). If you are interested in reincarnation, I would recommend this book. Both of these psychiatrists are very careful not to promote any weird conclusions from their research, but Dr. Tucker does talk about consciousness and its relationship to the material brain and body. Here is a direct quote from page 196 of ‘Life Before Life’: “One problem is that we do not have an adequate theory to explain how reincarnation might work. We only have the outlines of a theory, based on the notion that consciousness is not confined to the brain. The consciousness in a particular individual continues to exist after that person dies and then can attach itself to a developing fetus, bringing memories, emotions, and even traumas with it.” I feel like I am looking at a stadium through a one-half inch crack in the fence. One of these days, in the not too distant future, I will be admitted to the stadium and will be facing some new adventures. This means that death is not something to fear, but might be something to look forward to. In the meantime, I must continue to do my best to be a good example to my family and friends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NORM Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 As I understand, the subject of Reincarnation is absolutely forbidden by Fundamental Christians, believed by some Christians, believed by some Jewish sects, and is taken for granted by Buddhists, Hindus, Jains, and some other 'eastern' denominations. Reincarnation is not something I've taken a close look at; probably because of my Christian background. I've always lumped reincarnation in the same boat as the supernatural. Since I no longer believe in the supernatural, I never really gave reincarnation much thought as an alternative. I am aware, however, of the laws of physics which states that energy cannot be destroyed, but can only be converted from one form into another. If we view our "life force" as a form of energy, then when that form expires, does it "migrate" to another form? Possibly. Hmmm. For me, some things are starting to come together. First, I read four books authored by Dr. Jacques Vallee, in which he explained his research on "Unexplained Aerial Objects" which turned out not to emphasize the aerial objects, but really the individual beings who were flying around the countryside in those 'objects'. The fact that these mysterious creatures have been associated with the planet earth for about the same length of time as mankind seems significant. The fact that "they" do not come down and openly intermingle with the earthly population has to be considered; it is possible, of course, that some are here among us without our realizing it. You've lost me here. Do you mean UFOs? Next step: The Ultimate Supreme Being, the Creator of this Universe, in my opinion, does not, and has never, micro-managed mankind on this planet. I'm with you here. However, it is obvious there are beings who claim to represent Him and, in that capacity have, in the past, done their best to guide and influence the human population. The Jewish Bible (the Old Testament) called them "Angels". The Torah was practically written by the Angels, there are dozens and dozens of verses following "The Lord Says_". It is evident that all of the Old Testament was influenced by Angels or some similar divinely inspired environmental element. I wouldn't use the term obvious here. I certainly have never seen an angel, and the Tanakh was written by men. If angels wrote the Bible, don't you think it would make more sense? How about the New Testament? I was being somewhat facetious when I recently wrote in a comment "Jesus Christ had to be an Angel" but it makes sense. An ordinary human being could not have done all the miraculous things He did, so the early church bishops declared that He was "Divine" so that the stories about Him would be acceptable to the 'man in the street'. If He is an Angel, then the 'Second Coming' is a very distinct possibility and we all will not go to Heaven, but Heaven will be created here on earth. This means that the 'Rapture' is just John Darby's wishful thinking. I certainly don't think Jesus was an angel. If he existed at all, I think he was an enlightened individual who claimed to have a special relationship with the Jewish G-d. I agree with you that if there is a Heaven, then it will be right here on this planet. Where does 'Reincarnation' fit in? If those Angels are really all "Souls" who come back from time to time as human beings on the planet earth it will explain several things we have been wondering about. It will explain their rabid interest in mankind's activities. It will explain why they display some of the same faults that mankind has been exhibiting for thousands of years. It will explain why they do not intermingle on a day-by-day basis with the earthly population. Unfortunately, our ignorance will continue to outweigh our knowledge, so we will not have very many answers until we go across the line, spend some time as an Angel (will we qualify?), and then choose another set of parents. Does this mean that I fervently believe in Reincarnation and Angels? Not necessarily, but I do think the subjects are worthy of consideration and study. We have to be careful not to get caught up in "cultism" or "off the wall" fantasies. I very much appreciate those individuals who have the education, talent, and time to do the research on these subjects and then can publish their findings for our benefit. There are still a great many unanswered questions – we are just floundering around in the shallow end of the pool. I'm not buying the Angle stuff, but I think there is some merit in exploring the scientific evidence (or lack thereof) regarding reincarnation. At the end of his life, Carl Sagan entertained the notion of traveling through different dimensions and exploring worlds light years away from our own. The book Contact is something you may find of interest. NORM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
halinsalem Posted May 5, 2011 Author Share Posted May 5, 2011 Thank you, Norm for your comments. I can really recommend the book by Jim B. Tucker, M.D., the child psychiatrist who does reincarnation research at the University of Virginia. His book "Life Before Life" is well written and his discussion of consciousness makes sense (to me). The book is cheap and easy to read; it may not solve any of today's problems on earth, but it does give a glimpse of what might be coming afterwards. He and his colleague, Dr. Stevenson, both carefully avoid assumptions that might be incorrect or offend. Hal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kayatl Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 I find reincarnation an interesting topic, to a point. I also put near death experiences and the whole topic of afterlife/heaven in this category. All we have is individual reports, no double blind studies or other scientific foll-de-rol to prove scientifically anything about these subjects. I cannot deny the great changes in a person's life after a NDE which have eloquently described by Tausch.After working for three years as an RN in an inpatient hospice, I never experienced the angels, spirits, etc that some of my colleagues reported. I am a Christian of Spong's ilk though I read widely. I doubt if we could ethically have such studies so I am going to put these topics in a black box for subjects we cannot thorougly explain now. I have also put two other topics in that black box, comparisons between mind and quantum mechanics and the possibility of computers taking over mankind. I have read many books about quantum mechanics but my recent(and continuing)read "The Dancing Wu Li Masters" by Gary Zukav gives me a glimmer of a hope that I can grasp the main tenents of quantum mechanics. Drawing a connection between mind/consciousness(which deserve a black box of their own) and quantum mechanics with its need for either fancy equipment or some of the most complicated mind games to even demonstrate is just too much for my feeble brain to grasp. Michio' Kaku's "Physics of the Future" which makes many incredible predictions thru the year 2100 just about squashes the idea of computers taking over mankind, but he goes over many possible inventions that mankind may see. That is if we don't blow one another to smithereens in the interim! Kay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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