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The Beatitudes


tariki

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Maybe it is a commentary on "do unto others." In other words, if we expect mercy from others we should be merciful. Not as a quid pro quo, but as a sign of reciprocal behavior. I'm also reminded of the version of Micah 6:8 (my favorite verse) that commands us to "do justice, love mercy...." The word for mercy in that case is often translated as "kindness." so maybe we are simply being enjoined to be kind to one another. Or maybe Jesus means to hold up the merciful as an example to others.

 

Maybe appears to be my favorite word here.

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The more I reflect upon this, the more back to front it appears. And if not "back to front", then potentially very calculating! WE choose to be merciful, therefore the Divine is merciful towards us. And we are "merciful" (is it then really mercy?) so as to obtain our mercy - or forgiveness - from God.

 

1 John 4:10 This is love: not that we loved God, but that he has first loved us........

 

Following the same logic (if logic is the right word) we are first shown mercy, then, in response, are merciful. An ethics of gratitude. And if we are to recogise mercy, then we have seen some reason for our need of it, and if so then another form of ethics follows, an ethics of empathy.

 

 

Maybe it is a commentary on "do unto others." In other words, if we expect mercy from others we should be merciful. Not as a quid pro quo, but as a sign of reciprocal behavior. I'm also reminded of the version of Micah 6:8 (my favorite verse) that commands us to "do justice, love mercy...." The word for mercy in that case is often translated as "kindness." so maybe we are simply being enjoined to be kind to one another. Or maybe Jesus means to hold up the merciful as an example to others.

 

Maybe appears to be my favorite word here.

 

Maybe is a great word. Much more fun that "certainly" ;)

 

I agree that this is a certain logic (stance?) regarding ethics, but it's not a moral calculus. Mercy is personal and is given out in a way that does not account for one's moral worth (justice). To receive mercy because one was merciful, to be obligated by law (divine or otherwise) to be merciful is not possible.

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Paul talked about the law of the spirit of life making us free in the book of Romans. It seems to me this supports many of the Beatitudes. To me, the Spirit of life is One and therefore all things done to another is in Spirit done to Self. Therefore receiving mercy is a product of showing mercy, receiving is a product of giving, forgiveness is a product of forgiving, etc... or more accurately stated in my view of reality, these things are one and the same.

 

Joseph

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Paul talked about the law of the spirit of life making us free in the book of Romans. It seems to me this supports many of the Beatitudes. To me, the Spirit of life is One and therefore all things done to another is in Spirit done to Self. Therefore receiving mercy is a product of showing mercy, receiving is a product of giving, forgiveness is a product of forgiving, etc... or more accurately stated in my view of reality, these things are one and the same.

 

Joseph

 

Joseph,

 

I just happen to be musing my way through some Buddhist terms, and just saw this....

 

"One of the characteristics of an Enlightened being reads:- The perfect fulfillment of bringing benefits to self and others equally."

 

In Mahayana thought, Nirvana is not a transcendent state apart from birth-and-death, but the very foundation of existence, so that to attain enlightenment is to return to the world of birth-and-death.

 

Just thought I would share.

 

:)

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  • 2 weeks later...

I've been giving this last one the once over, and to a certain extent trying to get some sort of handle on it At least some sort of handle that I could actually put into any words. I think the problem has been that I've been trying to separate the two lines.............what is it to be prue in heart..............and.........what is it to see God.

 

I think they are both the same thing. I'm certainly not pure, so I do not "see" God. Perhaps perfect love casts out fear, and my love is not perfect. Yet seeing we are not pure and seeing simultaneously the infinite compassion that reveals this to us without judgement, is the Pure Land moment of "redemption", a moment of time, yet not in time.

 

Eckhart: The eye wherein I see God is the same eye wherein God sees me.

 

And again.......In giving us His love God has given us His Spirit so that we can love Him with the love wherewith He loves Himself.

 

All so much mumbo jumbo, and in the hurly burly of everyday life, easy for such to become only more words jogging around in the mind.

 

Yet often I'm surprised by love.

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This verse has been elusive for me also.

Maybe when we’re pure in heart we “see” God in others, as we feel God within ourselves.

 

Psalm 18 says “with the pure you show yourself pure, and with the crooked you show yourself perverse.”

 

Lao Tsu wrote ‘great purity seems sullied.’ Jesus ate with tax collectors, harlots, and other outcasts – lifting them up.

 

If we are openhearted and trusting we sense only the best motives and intentions in others –the charitable outlook described in I Corinthians 13.

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This verse has been elusive for me also.

Maybe when we’re pure in heart we “see” God in others, as we feel God within ourselves.

 

Psalm 18 says “with the pure you show yourself pure, and with the crooked you show yourself perverse.”

 

Lao Tsu wrote ‘great purity seems sullied.’ Jesus ate with tax collectors, harlots, and other outcasts – lifting them up.

 

If we are openhearted and trusting we sense only the best motives and intentions in others –the charitable outlook described in I Corinthians 13.

 

rivanna,

 

A few words from Merton,from his book New Seeds of Contemplation.........

 

The saints are what they are, not because their sanctity makes them admirable to others, but because the gift of sainthood makes it possible for them to admire everybody else.

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When thinking stops......

there is no judgement.....

and things are seen in that moment....

for what they are.

The heart is pure and not troubled....

and only God is present in all things.

Happy is the one whose thoughts when they reoccur....

has not forgotten what is known.

 

Joseph

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  • 2 weeks later...

Moving on....

 

Blessed are the peacemakers,

for they shall be called children of God.

 

Just a first thought, that perhaps we need at least a degree of peace within ourselves before we seek to bring peace to others.

 

Just thought of a little quote from Thomas Merton that seems apt in some ways......it comes from a letter of his to the "Zen Man" Daisetz T Suzuki.................

 

I want to speak for this Western world.................which has in past centuries broken in upon you and brought you our own confusion, our own alienation, our own decrepitude, our lack of culture, our lack of faith...........If I wept until the end of the world, I could not signify enough of what this tragedy means. If only we had thought of coming to you to learn something..............If only we had thought of coming to you and loving you for what you are in yourselves, instead of trying to make you over into our own image and likeness. For me it is clearly evident that you and I have in common and share most intimately precisely that which, in the eyes of conventional Westerners, would seem to separate us. The fact that you are a Zen Buddhist and I am a Christian monk, far from separating us, makes us most like one another. How many centuries is it going to take for people to discover this fact?......

 

(It just seems sad that the "peace" on offer - so often - is for others to accept our "truth", then we can get along fine..... :( )

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Moving on....

 

Blessed are the peacemakers,

for they shall be called children of God.

 

Just a first thought, that perhaps we need at least a degree of peace within ourselves before we seek to bring peace to others.

 

(It just seems sad that the "peace" on offer - so often - is for others to accept our "truth", then we can get along fine..... :( )

 

The two individuals in your post I feel know the interconnectedness of all things, they know love; they know themselves; and they know peace. I felt peace just by reading what they wrote and received. They are the children of God. Thank you

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  • 2 weeks later...

Just something that sprang to mind concerning the "peacemakers" beatitude, about when I was still meeting with my fundamentalist friends. Certain "peace" talks were in progress between the USA and Russia regarding nuclear weapons, and one of us asked if those participating in the peace talks were "saved", given the blessing offered. It just seems to me that this question implies the nature of the fundamentalist mindset. Words are taken just as said, totally literally......they are not seen to point beyond themselves nor meet with other words/ideas, nor meet with ones own experience.

 

Sadly, after trawling the various forums on various websites, it does ssem that it is this form of "literalist/fundamentalist" Christianity that predominates, either as that which is accepted, or as that which has been rejected, often to be replaced by atheism pure and simple.

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Sadly, after trawling the various forums on various websites, it does ssem that it is this form of "literalist/fundamentalist" Christianity that predominates, either as that which is accepted, or as that which has been rejected, often to be replaced by atheism pure and simple.

I think that some people have a need for absolutes and this manifests in their religion, social attitudes and politics.

A world in which there are greys, ambiguity, uncertainty, etc. is unsatisfactory.

 

That is the reason that I wonder if Progressive Christianity would suit everyone.

 

George

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I think that some people have a need for absolutes and this manifests in their religion, social attitudes and politics.

A world in which there are greys, ambiguity, uncertainty, etc. is unsatisfactory.

 

That is the reason that I wonder if Progressive Christianity would suit everyone.

 

George

It seems to me that Progressive Christianity is more a way of life than a religion. It is not meant to suit everyone in my opinion.

Joseph

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  • 2 weeks later...

I have to say I've very much enjoyed this thread.

 

At any rate, I don't have much exciting to add here at the moment. First, I'd emphasize that Jesus doesn't appear to be talking about a future reward as much as a proof of citizenship, so to speak. If one is a member of the kingdom of God, if one is acting as an instrument of good and letting good flow through them, then it is inevitable that he or she will be persecuted for being righteous, because he or she will inevitably conflict with temporal powers.

 

At the same time, I'm not sure. I may be relying too much on whether or not Jesus is using present or future tense.

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First, I'd emphasize that Jesus doesn't appear to be talking about a future reward as much as a proof of citizenship, so to speak. If one is a member of the kingdom of God, if one is acting as an instrument of good and letting good flow through them, then it is inevitable that he or she will be persecuted for being righteous, because he or she will inevitably conflict with temporal powers.

 

You said this very well. Thanks..............

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You said this very well. Thanks..............

 

No, thank you.

I genuinely try when I post here. I'm glad I contribute sometimes.

 

But now I'm puzzling about the tenses. I'm not exactly sure what to do, but I do find it interesting that some beatitudes are present tense, and others are future tense.

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Nick, in all probability the words were written at the time to encourage the early Christians, who often faced persecution. Who knows? I've long lost interest in the "Jesus of History" in the sense of "what really happened" or what Jesus may or may not have "really said". For me it just led to speculation and dead ends, and a final picking and choosing (that just set me at odds with those who picked and chose differently............ :D )

 

The meaning of Christ, the Eternal Word, a Living Word not a written one.......that for me is a different matter.

 

Anyway, as far as this beatitude is concerned, my own weird mind of strange associations links it with the words of St Paul "do not be conformed to this world". I think it is easy to just go along with the crowd and echo the sentiments of the cultural majority. Once we "get serious" it seems inevitable that we shall find ourselves at odds with certain things, "religious" or secular. Whether or not this will then involve "persecution" is another matter. I've been fortunate enough to live at a time when the persecution in any true sense has been non existent.

 

Glad you have enjoyed the thread!

 

:)

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Blessed are the poor, (Note my moved comma not in original Greek)

in spirit theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

 

 

 

A perfect example of how a mere comma can change the translation and meaning of a sentence.

 

Poor in spirit would say to me that someone is spiritually deficient. Blessed are the poor because if they have spirituality, theirs is the kindgom of God.

 

While the beatitudes offer a logical, fundamental and ethical path to follow, I also like the "Woes of the pharisees":

 

The woes

 

The woes themselves are all woes of hypocrisy:

Hypocrisy: They taught about God but did not love God - they did not enter the kingdom of heaven themselves, nor did they let others enter. (Mat. 23:13-14)

Hypocrisy: They preached God but converted people to dead religion, thus making those converts twice as much sons of hell as they themselves were. (Mat. 23:15)

Hypocrisy: They taught that an oath sworn by the temple or altar was not binding, but that if sworn by the gold ornamentation of the temple, or by a sacrificial gift on the altar, it was binding. The gold and gifts, however, were not sacred in themselves as the temple and altar were, but derived a measure of lesser sacredness by being connected to the temple or altar. The teachers and Pharisees worshipped at the temple and offered sacrifices at the altar because they knew that the temple and altar were sacred. How then could they deny oath-binding value to what was truly sacred and accord it to objects of trivial and derived sacredness? (Mat. 23:16-22)

Hypocrisy: They taught the law but did not practise some of the most important parts of the law - justice, mercy, faithfulness to God. They obeyed the minutiae of the law such as titheing spices but not the real meat of the law. (Mat. 23:23-24)

Hypocrisy: They presented an appearance of being 'clean' (self-restrained, not involved in carnal matters), yet they were dirty inside: they seethed with hidden worldly desires, carnality. They were full of greed and self-indulgence. (Mat. 23:25-26)

Hypocrisy - They exhibited themselves as righteous on account of being scrupulous keepers of the law, but were in fact not righteous: their mask of righteousness hid a secret inner world of ungodly thoughts and feelings. They were full of wickedness. They were like whitewashed tombs, beautiful on the outside, but full of dead men's bones. (Mat. 23:27-28)

Hypocrisy: They professed a high regard for the dead prophets of old, and claimed that they would never have persecuted and murdered prophets, when in fact they were cut from the same cloth as the persecutors and murderers: they too had murderous blood in their veins. (Mat. 23:29-36)

The gospel writer of Matthew precedes the woes with a discussion of the Great Commandment (or two greatest commandments, see also Ministry of Jesus:General Ethics). The woes can be seen as the consequence of violating these commandments, and of neglecting them in favour of the minor observances of the law, see also 613 Mitzvot. Jesus is portrayed as impatient with outward, ritual observance of minutiae which made some of his critics look acceptable and virtuous outwardly but left the inner person unreformed. This type of religious behaviour neglected to help those in need--"They tie up heavy loads and put them on men's shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them.

 

Kath

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It seems to me that Progressive Christianity is more a way of life than a religion. It is not meant to suit everyone in my opinion.

Joseph

 

Another profound explanation of "progressive Christianity", Joseph. Thank you.

 

Kath

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Nick, in all probability the words were written at the time to encourage the early Christians, who often faced persecution. Who knows? I've long lost interest in the "Jesus of History" in the sense of "what really happened" or what Jesus may or may not have "really said". For me it just led to speculation and dead ends, and a final picking and choosing (that just set me at odds with those who picked and chose differently............ :D )

 

The meaning of Christ, the Eternal Word, a Living Word not a written one.......that for me is a different matter.

 

Anyway, as far as this beatitude is concerned, my own weird mind of strange associations links it with the words of St Paul "do not be conformed to this world". I think it is easy to just go along with the crowd and echo the sentiments of the cultural majority. Once we "get serious" it seems inevitable that we shall find ourselves at odds with certain things, "religious" or secular. Whether or not this will then involve "persecution" is another matter. I've been fortunate enough to live at a time when the persecution in any true sense has been non existent.

 

Agreed on all points. Jesus' message is so powerful because it's full of paradox yet consistently criticizes the powerful, especially when they are hypocrites. Indeed, I think one could argue that Jesus' message is that power in human hands is almost inevitably used in hypocritical (or worse) ways.

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  • 3 months later...

Since running this thread I have started the same thing on another forum. One of the replies is worth posting here, and I have just received permission..... :)

 

Anyway, here is is, and is in response to the first beatitude, "Blessed are the Poor......."

 

I find it fascinating how Matthew and Luke differ in their accounting of the Beatitudes. Luke's just says "Blessed are the poor", whereas Matthew's has "Blessed are the poor in spirit".

 

Luke's is very clearly a statement about the poor--which is rather fitting for Luke's general purposes for his gospel; but Matthew adds "in spirit". Does this pit Matthew's version against Luke, or offer perhaps an expansion rather than supplement. For Matthew not just the poor, but those who share with the poor and are with them in spirit? The blessing therefore goes further to include those who aren't just poor, but also poor in spirit.

 

That's, I think, an interesting way to look at it. Having the same spirit as the poor demonstrates the virtuousness of the poor and continues to emphasize God's identification with the poor and the consistent theme in the Gospels and general New Testament notion that the kingdom is preached and for the least of these and God cares for the least of these and those who are going to do the will of God and follow Jesus must also be for and identify with the least of these.

 

Thus the kingdom belongs not only to the poor, but those who identify with the poor, who suffer along with the poor, who are poor in spirit.

 

Just some of my own thoughts.

 

-CryptoLutheran

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