Billy Graham & View On Salvation

[BeachOfEden]

A Fair Judgement

 

A FAIR AND INCLUSIVE RANSOM

 

MOST CHURCHES TEACH ALL MUST CHOOSE CORRECTLY NOW OR THEY ARE DOOMED!

 

Almost without exception the contradictory beliefs now being proclaimed to be a confused world have one thing in common,which is the use of fear as a method of making converts. It may be a fear of enternal torture or the fear of death in Armageddon. In the New Testament the Apostle Paul wrote: "As in Adam all die even so in Christ shall all be made alive."(1 Corthians 15:22) In Romans 8:19-23. Many of the Lord's people down through the age failed to realize this and so made the mistake of supposing that all were lost who did not accept their message. But where does this thinking come from? This taken directly from the offical Billy Graham Web Site Q and A's found at:

 

Billy Graham's Take On Salvation

 

This is what Billy Graham has to say on slavation on his site:

 

Will we have the opportunity to accept Christ and get right with God after we die?

"The Bible teaches that our decision for Christ must be made this side of the grave.We find no hope in the Bible for people who do not get right with God in this life.

The most important thing we have to settle in this life is our eternal salvation. Those who ignore God's warnings and invitations do so at great peril. Proverbs 29:1 says: "A man who remains stiff-necked after many rebukes will suddenly be destroyed -- without remedy." God is giving us opportunity now to receive Christ and eternal life. "Today, if you hear his voice, harden not your hearts" (Hebrews 4:7)."

First of all we need to examine who God is talking about here when He speaks of, "Those who remain stiff-necked after many rebukes will suddenly be destroyed -- without remedy." First here, God is talking about those who already fully know all the facts about God's true plan for humanity and then rejected it. So if one knows all the facts this would NOT discribed an "unbeliever." Also this quote: "Today, if you hear his voice, harden not your hearts" (Hebrews 4:7). It says clearly here that you must first , "Hear His voice." So this indicates NOT a non-believer but rather someone who hear and listened to God's message and then rejected it. This is also discribed as "Grieving The Holy Spirit," and is called "The Unforgivable Sin."

 

To comitte the "unforgivable sin," you must first understand what it is. If our "progress" has lead to a resticted view of the grace of God, if in our new understanding we have reached the conclusion that ONLY those will be blessed who agree with US and accept the message which, at best, we are able to present imperfectly,then we have regressed,and the glorious light of the true knowledge of God as it shines in the face of Jesus Christ is far out in front,while we have been left behind in the darkness.

 

CHRIST DIED FOR ALL

 

God's love for the sin-cursed and dying race has been made operative through the gift of his Son to be humankind's Redeemer. In John 3:16 we read,"God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son,that whosoever believes in him should not perish,but have everlasting life". But, as Paul asks,"How shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard?"(Romans 10:14) And the same apostle also explains that, "Satan, who is the god of this evil system, has made them blind, unable to see the glorious light of the Gospel that is shinning upon them, or do not understand the amazing message we preached about the Christ, who is the image of God".(2 Corthians 4:4)

 

CHOOSES NOT TO OR 'CAN NOT' SEE THE LIGHT OF CHRIST NOW?

 

This indicates that, as long as Satan continues to rule this, "present evil world",even those who do have the Gospel imperfectly presented do not have a fair opprotunity to believe. Paul explains that, "a knowledge of the ransom will be testified to all in due time".-1 Timothy 2:2-6.

 

AGAIN CHRIST GAVE HIS LIFE FOR 'ALL'

 

Paul explains: "The sin of this one man, Adam, caused death to be king over all, but all who will take God's gift of forgiveness and acquittal are kings of life because of this one man, Jesus Christ".-Romans 5:17-18. The apostle Paul emphasizes the largness of this number when he says that Jesus gave himself a ransom for "all"-that is, for the intire human race. This does NOT mean,of course,that the entire human race will be enternally saved as a result of the ransom, for it is mandatory that there be an individual acceptance of this of this provision of God's grace,in has been made for all.

 

 

The apostle makes it clear that ALL who have received the Holy Spirit are ABLE to UNDERSTAND the precious thoughts of God's writtings written in his Word. ALL the Lord's people have the privilege of assisting one another in the study of the Bible, and EACH ONE has an INDIVIDUAL responsibility to "search the scriptures", and to hold fast ONLY to that which is found to be in FULL harmony with the Holy Word. The responsibility set forth in this injunction can NOT be delegated to or left in the hands of others.

 

THE GOD OF LOVE

 

Yes, a knowledge of the grace and love of God inspires us to reverence and love him.(Isaiah 29:13). We should delight to proclaim the love of God, and fear should NEVER be used to indue people to believe in him and in his beloved. God's people today, as in the past,are called to show forth praises, how better can we do this than by proclaiming the glorious Kingdom Gospel of God's love and grace!

 

GOD ALONE CAN READ HEARTS

 

God, and he ALONE can read the hearts of the people and know the extent to which each individual is responsible for his/her wrong doing. So while we leave the the work of judgment up to with God, let us proclaim the truth of God's love and grace far and wide!-Psalm 66:8;Isaiah 52:8.

 

The grace and love of God toward his people, and toward ALL humankind, should inspire his people to render full obedience to him. However, obedience based on fear, tisk-tasking or minipulation or shaming is NOT pleasing to him. If we catch the inspiration of his love, we will rejoice that he has blessings for others besides ourselves, and will want to proclaim this heart-warming message to all humankind. We will want to tell the whole world about these good tidings of great joy which shall be to ALL people".-Luke 2:10.

 

It will be after the people are awakened from death, as Paul indicates,that the glorious truth of the ransom and the manner in which it gives evidence of God's love will be "testified' to them. That will be the "due time" when the "sea will be converted to God. Satan, the great deceiver, will then be bound, and the knowledge of God will fill the earth.

[DCJ]

"The fear of the LORD [respect for a holy God] is the beginning of knowledge." Proverbs 1:7

 

Billy Graham wasn't the only person to use "fear tactics." There was also this guy named Jesus:

Now there were some present at that time who told Jesus about the Galileans whose blood Pilate had mixed with their sacrifices. Jesus answered, “Do you think that these Galileans were worse sinners than all the other Galileans because they suffered this way? I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish. Or those eighteen who died when the tower in Siloam fell on them - do you think they were more guilty than all the others living in Jerusalem? I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish.”

Luke 13:1-5

[BeachOfEden]

I think there's a difference between Jesus telling people to, "Go on your way and sin no more," that is..to repent verses Billy Graham telling people that there is No chance of hope after death if you never met Jesus. There is universalim on the far left and there is the Billy Graham Evangeliclaism on the far right there says there is no fair change after death and I believe there IS a balance 'fair' option in the Bible that IS both fair and bibical and thus progressive.

[BeachOfEden]

..which is in the middle...

[BeachOfEden]

I mean think about it. If you go by Billy graham's take on slavation then that would mean that a vast majority of those people who died in India who were washed away by that flood are eternally screwed because may have called upon the name Krishna or Buddha instead of Jesus. Does that seem like a 'fair' salvation to you?

[DCJ]

That is an interesting question you ask, and one that has probably been asked for hundreds of years (or thousands, depending on how you read Romans 9). We should not let our sense of fairness cloud our search for the truth. Instead, we should seek the truth as revealed in Scripture, using that as our foundation upon which to approach difficult questions, and thus try to see things from God's perspective.

[BeachOfEden]

I don't mean to sound rude, DCJ, but this quote of yours, "We should not let our sense of fairness cloud our search for the truth," does not sound Progressive at all. I am started to wonder if you are a Progressive or even a moderate Christian at all. The 8 points of Progressive christianity, as pointed out on the TCPC main page is build on the foundation of reason and not having to leave your brain at the door when you enter a church...type mentality.

 

In contrast, fundamental Christianity tells us that we should not ponder contridictions that we find in their church interpretations. that we should not reason on how it could be that the bible says, "That God wants no one to perish," then turn right around and teach that God delights in thowing people into a burning hell forever. That we should not ponder how it can be that Galatians 3:28 says that "Their is neither male or female...but rather ALL beocme equal through Christ," one minutue then turn right around and say that the Bible says women are not equal.

 

We DO ponder these contridictions as because we DO ponder these contridictions we REASON that God does not contridict so if their lies conditions in the interpretations of the Bible then the problem lies right there..on human's 'interpreations'...of the Bible. Therefore, as a Progressive Christian I shall question Billy graham'sinterpretations of the Bible and salvation..because to me..they surely contridict Jesus' messge of a 'fair' chance for 'ALL.'

[BeachOfEden]

I would love to here other Progressive Christian's take on all this. Thanks!

[DCJ]

No one is advocating checking their brain at the church door. We agree that God's Word should not contradict itself, but interpretations might. Therefore, we need to study the Scriptures so we can find the truth. To quickly offer answers to some of your examples:

 

that we should not reason on how it could be that the bible says, "That God wants no one to perish," then turn right around and teach that God delights in thowing people into a burning hell forever.

God's moral will is that none of His image-bearers perishes. However, because of Jesus' extensive teachings on hell, we know that unfortunately many people will stubbornly reject God's grace.

 

That we should not ponder how it can be that Galatians 3:28 says that "Their is neither male or female...but rather ALL beocme equal through Christ," one minutue then turn right around and say that the Bible says women are not equal.

The passage in Galations refers to our unity in Christ in terms of salvation; it says nothing of the different roles in church government or in the family. If there truly were no difference at all between male and female, Ephesians 5 would not be necessary where it talks about the man loving his wife, and the wife obeying the husband. In that same passage, the church is taught to be the bride of Christ, who is the head of the church. So right there we have the church being subordinate to Christ, even though in Galations the church is equal to Christ.

 

In regards to Billy Graham's interpretation of salvation, like I said in another thread, there's no evidence that points to post-mortem salvation. We're all responsible for the light of general revelation we receive on this side of the grave.

[BeachOfEden]

If you do NOT share the belief that women should be treated completely equal..and you DO view hell as eternal fire torment...then these beliefs surely would NOT be discribed as "PROGRESSIVE" Christianity. These views you have explained to us that you hold better discribe those of Evangelical or Fundamental Protestantism so maybe you would find more agreement and beliefs in common if you were to join a Evangelical forum rather than to be here on the Ceneter For Progressive Christianity..becuase you'll find that NO ONE HERE will agree with the view that women are NOT eual nor the hell IS an eternal fireplace for the hopelessy evil. If you doubt my statemtns on this...simply re-READ the 8 points of Progressive Christianity or asked the owners of this web site.

[BeachOfEden]

See new thread on here intiled,"DCJ- What's Your Agenda?"

[Guest admin]

Just a quick note to say that, while one might not describe DCJ's theological views as "progressive," he/she is very much welcome to post respectfully presented opinions or counter-opinions in the Debate and Dialogue section of the TCPC message boards. We thought that there might be something useful about these kinds of discussions, if there is actually some give and take (this is, to some degree, what is meant by "respectful.") But I am open to other posters thoughts on this!

 

This particular section of the boards is here so that other areas can be, more or less, kept free of debate regarding the basic progressive Christian "stance" so that participants can move beyond these kind of apologetics into deeper discussions on a variety of topics.

 

At any rate, no need to worry about uncovering anyone's "agenda," at least not in the Debate and Dialogue area. DCJ is not exactly hiding his/hers anyway

[BeachOfEden]

Thta is true. On my other thread about What's Your Agenda? I took the libirity of posting two direct links to Beliefnet's "Learn About Progrogressive Christianity," as well as their other one there, "Challenge & Debate Progressive Christianity." You might also like the add these as TCPC links.

[irreverance]

We agree that God's Word should not contradict itself, but interpretations might.

This is where communication breaks down for me. I believe that there are internal contradictions in Scripture. They were written by real human beings living in real contexts. They were not omniscient, and they were not "infallably" inspired. Hence it is important to look at the texts within thier contexts and seek to understand as best as we can why they wrote what they did at that particular time (which may contradict what was written in another place and time). Progressives, then, are far more interested in the "spirit" than the "letter" of Scripture.

 

I think that the progressive understanding tends to be less concerned with "heaven after death" than "being liberated into abundant life" in the here and now. The primary texts we have (Scripture) speak of "heaven" and "hell" mostly symbolically. The proclamation of the Kingdom of God is the assertion that God's will is justice-oriented love, and any forms of self-serving domination (whether religious or political) are not born of heaven. Thus, the overturning of such supposed "authorities."

[BeachOfEden]

It is true that some relate more with the Liberal Christian's beliefs of those such as Bishop Sponge who view Sciptures as positive myths that inspire ethical living..while others may relate more to a more moderate Progressive view on Christianity, where Scriptures are viewed as having been inspired by God but a claim of all modern day Bibles all do have errors....Dispite these 2 difference theologically...still..both groups share the same views on social justice found in all inclusive Christianity.