First Paul All Chapters 1 Thru 7

[murmsk]

Chapter 7 Life together in Christ

 

With my son graduated I plan to catch up this week. This chapter looks to be very deep in "Why Jesus. why church"

 

steve

[rivanna]

Steve,

 

Chapter 7 and the Epilogue made more interesting points, things that were new to me … since others aren’t joining in I won’t go on, but thanks for suggesting this book, it was well worth reading. And good luck with your church.

[Rennyo]

Hi

First post, thought I would jump in on this most interesting conversation. I have to ask, is Paul's message really fundamentally different from Jesus'? At the heart of Paul's teachings (in regard to one's relationship with God) is the idea that people are accepted freely, by grace; an acceptance so complete that one can call God "Abba". Didn't Jesus say as much when he spoke of God as "Abba", even telling his disciples to pray "our Father"? When people speak of "the religion of Jesus" as opposed to the "religion about Jesus" they are specifically referring to the commands and admonitions of Jesus. Yet Paul doesn't dismiss those commands and admonitions; he says that when a person is in right relationship with God (aware of God's acceptance of him/her), that one would naturally begin to obey the commands of Jesus. He focuses on a psychological insight that is present also in Buddhism and Taoism, that making an effort to "be good" can backfire, whereas a psychic relaxation can bring forth those very virtues. The Tao Te Ching says "When the Tao is forgotten, goodness and piety appear", that is, moral codes and demands for right behavior appear. "Throw away morality and justice and people will do the right thing"; that is, the demand for "righteousness" (law) leads to unrighteousness (sin).

 

Thoughts? Am I off or am I waaaay off?

[murmsk]

Renno,

 

Welcome!!!

 

I think Pauls and Jesus's message is fundamentally the same as you have described. The problem I and many have with Pauls messages is when he deviates from how I view Jesus's message namely his views on women,gays and the like.

 

steve

[Neon Genesis]

Welcome to the forums, Renno! I think Paul and Jesus share some similar teachings but I think their methods of salvation are very different from each other. Paul believes that salvation comes from believing in the resurrection of Jesus although Paul sees the resurrection as a spiritual symbolic event rather than a literal event. In the synoptic gospels, Jesus teaches a more works based salvation where God judges people on how they treat their neighbors rather than what they believe about God. John's gospel is the only gospel where Jesus teaches salvation comes through faith in the resurrection but John's gospel is mostly post-Easter and not historical.

[rivanna]

Hi Rennyo,

 

Nice post as you say, Jesus and Paul were very much on the same page. Also liked the way you synthesized the message of Jesus and Paul with the psychological insight from the Tao/Buddhism. It does seem like a parallel instead of anxiously striving to perform every rule of the Law, we can trust in grace and compassion from God and one another. The deep understanding of human nature, motivation, is the same in all three.

 

The last 2 chapters of this book werent talked about, but in chapter 7, Life Together in Christ, the authors claim that Pauls view was quite different from the notion of spirituality in modern Western culture, where its defined as primarily private and individual. For Paul, life in Christ was always a communal matter. His purpose and passion was to create communities whose life together embodied an alternative to the wisdom of this world.

 

The last chapter speculates that most likely Paul died not as a hero but among the other martyrs under the emperor Nero, and Luke chose not to disclose this in Acts. The authors point out that the divisions Paul had to deal with in his letters between conservative and liberal followers, resemble the differences among Christians today.

 

The book ends with the emphasis on distributive justice rather than personal salvation. Some progressives lean more toward the social implications, others focus on the introspective side of Christianity. This book makes it clear that Paul saw them as integrated parts of one vision, using terms like the body of Christ. He often addressed his audience as brothers and sisters, creating a new family language-- sometimes called a fictive family.

 

Hope you will share your thoughts again.