Jump to content

The Harm To Others


Recommended Posts

Being is blunt does not make you disrespectful. There is no need to apologize.

 

I don't think we disagree here about the existence of true truth. And I agree that we are able to, and should, discuss whether things are true or not. The point I was trying to make with Joseph was just that. Since we know there is true truth, we have a basis from which to rationally discuss whether things are true.

I don't discount subjectivity, but likewise, I do not think it blinds us to the truth to the extent Joseph proposes. By your simply saying truth exists shows objectivity.

Acknowledging the little formula, the one I'm sure your familiar with by now, is the big picture. It is the universal from which the details of other arguements can be rationally discussed.

 

(snip)

 

David,

 

You say " Since we know there is true truth, we have a basis from which to rationally discuss whether things are true"

 

Concerning the things of God, we each have our own subjective view of what is rational and what is not. We each have our own subjective view of what is true or not and what seems logical or not. Knowing this are you trying to tell me that we can discuss truth and know that it is true by discussion?

 

Perhaps we can share our individual view of what we think is true but it seems to me it is a delusion of mind to think we will 'know' or determine whether that which this site speaks of "things are true" by the concept of 'rational discussion'.

 

If all you really meant was we can discuss what we believe is true, well that goes without saying since all have been doing that on this site for some time. If so, is that the point you have been arguing about?

 

Just something for you to consider.

 

Joseph

 

PS I think the truth we speak of wayfarer2k has said well in post #61 as many others have also implied "Truth is experiential". It seems to me you think it is rational or conceptual or intellectual. But I could be mistaken here as I can't speak for you.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...
  • Replies 216
  • Created
  • Last Reply
Concerning the things of God, we each have our own subjective view of what is rational and what is not. We each have our own subjective view of what is true or not and what seems logical or not. Knowing this are you trying to tell me that we can discuss truth and know that it is true by discussion?

Perhaps we can share our individual view of what we think is true but it seems to me it is a delusion of mind to think we will 'know' or determine whether that which this site speaks of "things are true" by the concept of 'rational discussion'.

If all you really meant was we can discuss what we believe is true,...

We are beckoned by a reasonable God to discuss things together with rational dialogue. Because by knowing truth exists we can discuss and reason together how our individual vantage points conform to His truth.

Isaiah 1:18; "Come now, and let us reason together," says the Lord, ...

 

PS I think the truth we speak of wayfarer2k has said well in post #61 as many others have also implied "Truth is experiential". It seems to me you think it is rational or conceptual or intellectual. But I could be mistaken here as I can't speak for you.

 

Truth is rational so that experiences can be considered.

 

To know something means certainty in something.

To say certainty is not possible, that there is only subjectivity, repudiates the likelihood of any real knowledge, rendering us hopeless.

 

Hopelessness is a very real harm.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

We are beckoned by a reasonable God to discuss things together with rational dialogue. Because by knowing truth exists we can discuss and reason together how our individual vantage points conform to His truth.

Isaiah 1:18; "Come now, and let us reason together," says the Lord, ...

Truth is rational so that experiences can be considered.

 

To know something means certainty in something.

To say certainty is not possible, that there is only subjectivity, repudiates the likelihood of any real knowledge, rendering us hopeless.

 

Hopelessness is a very real harm.

 

 

Davidk,

 

Perhaps we can discuss but it is your own interpretation of truth that is subjective in the first place. His Truth is not revealed in a book or by your so called rational discussion.

 

The part of you that is rendered hopeless will pass away shortly anyway. So what is your point? I know certainty in the flesh is an illusion yet I have no thoughts or feelings of hopelessness. To me you speak only hollow words on this subject.

 

Joseph

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The part of you that is rendered hopeless will pass away shortly anyway. So what is your point? I know certainty in the flesh is an illusion yet I have no thoughts or feelings of hopelessness. To me you speak only hollow words on this subject.

I know absolute truth exists. Therefore, I have hope.

There is no hope in the hollowness of only illusion.

 

If there is no certainty, how can you hope to know anything?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Absolute truth does exist "out there", but the point is trivial. "Hope" suggests uncertainty, and not proximal certainty as some suggest. Perhaps tomorrow I will have an experience that will extend knowledge to a new level, perhaps not. Perhaps my new knowledge will fall on deaf ears, for those who already "know the truth". As time passes, some "truth" will be left behind in the process, supplanted by the new. That is how it works. For many years, the assumption of a static base of "knowing" left me without hope of anything new. That is why "progressives" are what they are. They have hope that, someday, a new understanding will evolve, an understanding that brings us closer to God.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I know absolute truth exists. Therefore, I have hope.

There is no hope in the hollowness of only illusion.

 

If there is no certainty, how can you hope to know anything?

 

 

Davidk,

 

Absolute truth exists but it will not be known my your thinking mind. Even your prized book says we can not know the things of God with our eyes and ears of flesh. As minsocaL says " "Hope" suggests uncertainty " not absolute truth. When one has certainty, what need is there to hope for it? With the flesh there is illusion of knowing truth but with Spirit truth is known by virtue of being one with it.

 

Just something for you to consider.

 

Joseph

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...
Absolute truth does exist "out there", but the point is trivial. "Hope" suggests uncertainty, and not proximal certainty as some suggest. Perhaps tomorrow I will have an experience that will extend knowledge to a new level, perhaps not. Perhaps my new knowledge will fall on deaf ears, for those who already "know the truth". As time passes, some "truth" will be left behind in the process, supplanted by the new. That is how it works. For many years, the assumption of a static base of "knowing" left me without hope of anything new. That is why "progressives" are what they are. They have hope that, someday, a new understanding will evolve, an understanding that brings us closer to God.

Minsocal,

I would respond by saying that the existence of absolutes is hardly trivial. It is quite literally the foundational basis by which we search for knowledge at all. The exploration for truth is based on our knowing truth is really out there somewhere and we want to find it. Can we misinterpret what we find, or make incorrect conclusions, of course. Our finite little brains leave that as a foregone conclusion. But because even in our piddling little brains, we know truth exists, we can keep exploring, investigating, and experimenting in the search for those truths with the hopes of getting a better handle on all that is around us.

---

Hope is trust in the expectation. Absolutes 'suggest' hope, because, we can rely on the expectations of their certainty.

 

Something for your consideration, too Joseph, since you had it absolutely backwards.

"Hope" suggests uncertainty " not absolute truth.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

(snip)

Hope is trust in the expectation. Absolutes 'suggest' hope, because, we can rely on the expectations of their certainty.

 

Something for your consideration, too Joseph, since you had it absolutely backwards.

 

Absolutes know and do not suggest hope. Why does that which is absolute hope for anything? A hope is a wish that one places their trust in. It may or may not be true. Some people hope to win the lottery. People hope to find a good job. People hope to find a perfect mate. No my friend hope does not suggest certainty. Certainty has no need for hope. Hope in the practical sense suggests wishful thinking. "For what a man has certainty of, why doth he yet hope for?"

 

 

Love Joseph

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...
Absolutes know and do not suggest hope. Why does that which is absolute hope for anything? A hope is a wish that one places their trust in. It may or may not be true. Some people hope to win the lottery. People hope to find a good job. People hope to find a perfect mate. No my friend hope does not suggest certainty. Certainty has no need for hope. Hope in the practical sense suggests wishful thinking. "For what a man has certainty of, why doth he yet hope for?"

Love Joseph

Absolutes are certain and are what shapes man's hope and knowledge.

 

Man cannot hope, trust, or have confidence in anything without a certainty in the expectations. The single adult cannot go to the alter alone hoping the perfect mate will come through the door without some certainty in the expectation.

 

There is such a thing as false hope, when there is no certainty.

---

More importantly the topic should not be distracted from the eternal hope man can have in the certainty of the absolute truth of the infinite-personal God.

 

To teach that man cannot be certain of anything destroys his hope and is quite probably the greatest harm one could inflict on another human being.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The worst people are certain that they are right. They will not change their minds because they can't reason and they harp over and over because they have a secret doubt, and they can't change the subject or their mind. They get in trouble not from what they don't know, but from what they know as absolutely right. These fanatics are so certain of themselves, they will kill for what they think is right. One can't reason with these people because there is no entry place for reason, certainty blocks all doors to Truth. Maybe that is why the Chinese have the proverb, "To be uncertain is to be uncomfortable, but to be certain is to be ridiculous."

 

Hope as a path of spirit, and the focus of the heart is not an assurance that something will turn out well, but the belief, trust, and support that something makes sense, regardless of how it turns out.

 

God is much better than what we think so we should open the closed door of certainty and not shut out love, grace, and wonder with absolute confidence that we know the absolutes. May we wash our face every morning with a fresh outlook, excited to see our Lord playing the game of love.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

soma- "The worst people are certain that they are right."

Are you certain about this?

 

soma- "They will not change their minds because they can't reason and they harp over and over because they have a secret doubt, and they can't change the subject or their mind."

Are you certain about this?

 

soma- "They get in trouble not from what they don't know, but from what they know as absolutely right. These fanatics are so certain of themselves, they will kill for what they think is right."

Are you certain about this?

 

soma- "One can't reason with these people because there is no entry place for reason, certainty blocks all doors to Truth."

Are you certain about this?

 

soma- "Maybe that is why the Chinese have the proverb, "To be uncertain is to be uncomfortable, but to be certain is to be ridiculous."

Are they certain about this?

 

soma- "Hope as a path of spirit, and the focus of the heart is not an assurance that something will turn out well, but the belief, trust, and support that something makes sense, regardless of how it turns out."

Are you certain about this?

 

soma- "God is much better than what we think so we should open the closed door of certainty and not shut out love, grace, and wonder with absolute confidence that we know the absolutes. May we wash our face every morning with a fresh outlook, excited to see our Lord playing the game of love."

Are you certain about this?

---

Now if you wish to be intellectually honest about uncertainty, then anything you want us to consider as true in your post should, at your insistance, now be understood as rediculous, problematic, questionable, not assured, inconsistent, undependable, unreliable, erratic, and doubtful; that is, of course, uncertain.

Unless you suddenly wish us to believe your are certain of anything, in which case you join the murderous fanatical ranks of the "worst people" and where your "certainty blocks all doors to Truth".

 

I guess the point is this, you can argue very convincingly about uncertainty, but in reality no one can live (or write) with it.

With certainty there is hope. God is there.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Absolutes are certain and are what shapes man's hope and knowledge.

 

Man cannot hope, trust, or have confidence in anything without a certainty in the expectations. The single adult cannot go to the alter alone hoping the perfect mate will come through the door without some certainty in the expectation.

 

There is such a thing as false hope, when there is no certainty.

---

More importantly the topic should not be distracted from the eternal hope man can have in the certainty of the absolute truth of the infinite-personal God.

 

To teach that man cannot be certain of anything destroys his hope and is quite probably the greatest harm one could inflict on another human being.

 

cer·tain·ty (sûrtn-t)

n. pl. cer·tain·ties

1. The fact, quality, or state of being certain: the certainty of death.

2. Something that is clearly established or assured:

 

David,

You seem to have your own definition of certainty and hope. Hope is to wish for something but I don't believe it implies certainty. If it was certain then hope would have no place to be. To be certain is to be definite without doubt or question. Hope does imply trust and confidence but lacks certainty otherwise it would not be hope. Perhaps you could redefine these words for us so we can agree with you.

 

Certainty is not in degrees as in temperature such as you have implied by the words 'some certainty' which you have used above in your example. If it is not definite than it is not certain.

 

Am I certain of this? No, but my conclusion is based on my current subjective understanding within the limited parameters of my thinking mind utilizing a dictionary and it is written here for your consideration.

 

My hope is not destroyed by my words and it is my view it does no one any harm except in your mind's way of thinking.

 

Love Joseph

Link to comment
Share on other sites

DavidK, Your statement, "Are you certain?", is good. It shows we cannot be infallibly certain of anything for we are not infallible. Even a yes answer would only be an opinion. It is too bad that most truths in organized religion consist in its exaggerations. Maintaining these truths of religion, religions make a statement that they are known solely on authority so each generation simply inherits them from the preceding generation. They say that understanding is not enough that they have to have faith to awaken certainty within them, but then they are told what to believe and what not to believe. I agree that understanding with the intellect is not enough so I feel one needs to strengthen one's consciousness and elevate consciousness because it is the most important element of any connection to love, God who is infallible, and Truth. One's consciousness makes the difference if one is connected or disconnected to love. The influence of diverse backgrounds and beliefs, holds many unwillingly in a prison cell waiting for something to be handed to them by an authority. This decision to stay in the cell is not freely made, as they are held their by guilt, false certainty or future promises. The cell mates are not free because they are not acting on their own free will, but on the will of another authority who is usually another person. They are prisoners to a desire from different authorities on various religious theories, views and opinions.

 

The development of our consciousness brings self-discovery, love, and an exploration one's individual relationship with an infallible God so I feel it is a noble endeavor. It might be in contrast with popular belief and lack the false certainty necessary for stability of an organization, but inspiration from one's individual consciousness is a “deep divine force” that lies within everyone. It develops certitude.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Minsocal had written of his hopelessness in what he considered old knowledge, and he needed a new knowledge to in order to be hopeful. He felt he could not trust the old knowledge any longer and is confident that a new knowledge will provide the answers he needs. He lost trust in the old to provide anything new and no hope of finding it in the old remained in him. This trust and confidence defines his hope. You may agree or disagree with whether he has reasonable expectations or not, but the point is that his hope is based on precisely what he believes to be guaranteed. I think he would agree. There should be nothing contentious about that.

 

Hope is always of future events. We can have hope in the forecast of rain next week, but then the reliability of the meteorologist has to be considered. So to answer Joseph; yes, hope and certainty can be in degrees.

 

So what is it that can we be sure about? What is it that we can trust with confidence? Whatever that is is where our hope is.

 

Even though soma's post on Nov 2 put him in a bit of a quandary, he's absolutely right about God being infallible and that many of man's faiths have kept him seperated from God. But, if certainty blocks truth and all is only subjective, then future events will forever remain in doubt. That doubt destroys trust, and without trust, hope is destroyed. That is not what God wants for us.

 

Wish is the desire for, the yearning. The God given desire for hope is the wish of man. Will that desire remain unquenched? Can it be considered attainable is the question.

 

Our greatest hope is in God and the promises of God. As we consider the absolute nature of God, His promises are just as absolute. If God is God, His promises are absolutely trustworthy, and are absolutely certain. So, therefore, our hope for an optimistic future is absolutely secure.

 

Taking that optimism away from man, harms him beyond measure.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

DavidK, I like the positive, striving to know God. I believe the power of Christianity lay not in a promise of future, heavenly compensations for suffering in this life, but an ecstatic, mystical relationship with God in life in the here and now. I believe the Christian Mystics give the best antidotes to life’s miseries in the here and now with an inner spiritual experience of bliss. A Christianity that is worth believing in makes a person alive and well now, and is good for the world, good for our spirits and good for our faith. We need a Christianity that encourages the interaction with other religions so we as Christians are not scared and threatened by them, but inspired to keep going, to keep creating, to keep participating on our own Christian spiritual journey to gain a deeper more blissful relationship with our Lord in the here and now. Christianity should be a partner in our journey, not an authoritarian pointing a finger at us. We have Christ pointing the way so we don't need to be manipulated with words because Christ is guiding us inside so we may grow, wonder, and ask in an open, non-threatening atmosphere the best way for us to navigate.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Our greatest hope is in God and the promises of God. As we consider the absolute nature of God, His promises are just as absolute. If God is God, His promises are absolutely trustworthy, and are absolutely certain. So, therefore, our hope for an optimistic future is absolutely secure.

 

Taking that optimism away from man, harms him beyond measure.

Davidk,

 

And what are His promises that are absolute? Are you referring to what you have read in the Bible? Are you absolutely certain , or just certain to a degree as you are with a meterologist? Or is it just your hope? Will you be harmed if you find errors in your book?

 

Joseph

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Davidk,

 

And what are His promises that are absolute? Are you referring to what you have read in the Bible? Are you absolutely certain , or just certain to a degree as you are with a meterologist? Or is it just your hope? Will you be harmed if you find errors in your book?

 

Joseph

For some examples you can begin by looking at Ps 34:17; Matt 5:3-12; Jn 3:16- 21. God is just a bit more reliable than a meteorologist, don't you think?

 

The real issue for you is whether the Bible is the verbalized communication from God to man; whether it is the propositional truth where it touches history and the cosmos and that which is considered religious, or not. Is it truly God's revelation or not.

 

If faith is separated from fact, there would be no reason to think religious 'things' come from anything other than what is in our own heads, which is unverifiable, subjective, existential, religious 'experience'.

 

Thinking God did (could, would) not do this is a closed system of thought that limits everything to only natural causation, where everything is a machine, where real propositional revelation from God is unthinkable.

 

Now why do you think God would not communicate to man in a way man can understand?

 

The harm is denying man of the certainty in his outcome by the ridicule of God's Word.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Why not come to the light so that we can move from the darkness of condemnation to the light of life? It is not through Christian superiority or a false Christian absolute certainty that one moves to light. John challenges us to come to the light in our conscience. It is sad that Christians don't talk about the light and instead talk about words or a book. The certitude is in the light, the supernatural experience that the mystics talk about and some Christians condemn as new age.

 

John writes, "Whoever says, 'I love God,' but hates his brother is a liar. The one who doesn’t love the brother whom he has seen can’t love a God whom he hasn’t seen" (1 John 4:20). Jesus told Peter that his pronouncements were not enough. He needs to show how much he loves his Lord by humble service to others. Love God is to love others. This is the proof of certitude, not the words spoken to convince someone to join a club. Whoever does what is true comes to the light, and it can be clearly seen that his actions are carried out in God, which shows certitude.

 

The light does not punish disbelief, religions say this with certainty to survive because they don't talk about the light so they need a threatened punishment that is awful. It is written in words not in the light. Titus 3-9 "But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain."

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Today's existentialism sets up a dichotomy between reason and non-reason.

 

It teaches that that which would give meaning is always separarted from reason; that reason only leads to a mathematical knowledge "downstairs", without any meaning; but "upstairs" it hopes to find a non-rational meaning for the particulars. This rationality only leads to pessimism. For instead of reason it teaches us to hope in some sort of mystical experience, apart from reason to provide a universal. Modern man now hopes to find something "within" because he can't be certain anything is "out there". This is the new mysticism, it gives no certainty that anything is there or that there is really any difference between reality and fantasy.

 

When we speak of the Christian mystics, they always assumed something was there. That form of mysticism had no concept of being separated from rationality. That is "A Christianity that is worth believing in (and) makes a person alive and well now, and is good for the world,..."

 

God has communicated his verbal propositional truths to us in a form we can reasonably understand.

 

Jesus spoke with the authority of the personal-infinite God to love Him and our neighbor. We find His words are reasonably written for us and revealed for us in the written Bible. The mystic, the apostle, John wrote reasonably with known words what God communicated to him to communicate to us. This communication did not originate in John's mind. He could not have known these things without the direct influence of God. When you read what John wrote, you can understand it because God is a reasonable God. If it were not for the written words of Jesus in the Bible, how could you have known of Him? He told us, Himself, what we can know about Him. We have it in writing!

 

Titus likewise shares God's thoughts, by way of the written word, about arguing over minutia when our need is to understand God's grace and mercy is given to us through Jesus Christ our Savior. Which is fully revealed to us through the written Scriptures. Arguably, no where else.

---

soma,

I don't want there to be any misunderstanding about absolutes and certainty. You have phrased it in a way I had not. I have said I am certain of the existence of absolutes, not that I have absolute certainty. I cannot claim my perfection in anything; likewise, Christians. Saying otherwise would be a mischaracterization. Thanks.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Mark 7:5-7

Mk 7:5 "Then the Pharisees and scribes asked him, Why walk not thy disciples according to the tradition of the elders, but eat bread with unwashen hands? 6 He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me. 7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men."

 

The above Bible quote shows the crippling nature of tradition. The Jewish clergy were accusing Jesus of breaking the traditions of that time. Tradition can blind one to God's authority, going away from the Spiritual experience within. Communing with the Spirit, meditating, contemplating, silence and deep prayer reintroduces one to God, while tradition has caused violations to the law of God, Jesus said that traditional worship was ineffective. Traditions were taught as God's will, but they were actually the will of man wearing the cloak of God. The bigotry and self righteousness of the Jewish leaders at that time can be transferred to the Christian leaders of our time. They take the word of God, which people can experience directly to dictating policy in the name of God. Part of their policy is against the direct spiritual experience.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Mark 7:5-7

Mk 7:5 "Then the Pharisees and scribes asked him, Why walk not thy disciples according to the tradition of the elders, but eat bread with unwashen hands? 6 He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me. 7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men."

 

The above Bible quote shows the crippling nature of tradition. The Jewish clergy were accusing Jesus of breaking the traditions of that time. Tradition can blind one to God's authority, going away from the Spiritual experience within. Communing with the Spirit, meditating, contemplating, silence and deep prayer reintroduces one to God, while tradition has caused violations to the law of God, Jesus said that traditional worship was ineffective. Traditions were taught as God's will, but they were actually the will of man wearing the cloak of God. The bigotry and self righteousness of the Jewish leaders at that time can be transferred to the Christian leaders of our time. They take the word of God, which people can experience directly to dictating policy in the name of God. Part of their policy is against the direct spiritual experience.

 

 

To be sure, teaching the precepts or recommendations of men as doctrine is critically dealt with by Jesus as it is written in Scripture. However, you skipped over v 6 rather quickly when it is said, "as it is written", which is germane to the topic at hand.

 

To stop at verse 7, you leave out some relevant teaching. 8 "Neglecting the commandment of God, you hold to the tradition of the elders (by implication; the Sanhedrin)." 9 He was also saying to them, "You nicely set aside the commandment of God in order to keep your tradition." According to the Bible, Jesus rebuked the elders for teaching their recommendations, rather than the commandments of God as they were communicated to man through the writing of the likes of Isaiah and Moses, whom He quotes in v 6 & 10.

It continues, v.14 And after (Jesus) called the multitude to Him again, He began by saying to them, "Listen to me, all of you, understand: 15 there is nothing outside the man (ie; food) which going into him can defile him; but the things which proceed out of the man are what defile the man." 16 "If any man has ears to hear, let him hear." v 21; "For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed the evil thoughts, fornications, thefts, murders, adulteries, deeds of coveting and wickedness, as well as deceit, sensuality, envy, slander, pride and foolishness. 23 All these evil things preceed from within and defile the man."

God literally communicates to us, "as it is written". It is the Bible which is the plumb line from which we determine what doctrine squares wih God.

---

The real issue for you is whether the Bible is the verbalized communication of God to man; whether it is the propositional truth where it touches history and the cosmos and that which is considered religious, or not. Is it truly God's revelation or not. Is it not faith separated from fact that thinks religious 'things' come from within, what is in our own heads, what is unverifiable, subjective, existential, religious 'experience'? See v 21-23 above.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Davidk,

 

There is no hope residing in the Mystic as if that is all he/she had (hope). What the Mystic sees does not rely on hope or belief. One only has to recognize the false, for Truth to surface of its own accord. It is present now and not in some future event that requires hope. Communication with God is always in Spirit and not in the words of men. Words can only point. That which is flesh is flesh and that which is spirit is spirit. It seems clear to me that flesh has not yet been exposed to you for what it is so that Spirit may surface. Otherwise you would not continue to oppose yourself. What need is there for a Book to dictate Truth or to look outside oneself when God is found at all times in his temple, of which temple you are. For the time is now that one worships God not in temples made with men's hands nor in Jerusalem nor in a Book but in Spirit and Truth which has no outside location.

 

Love Joseph

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Davidk,

 

There is no hope residing in the Mystic as if that is all he/she had (hope). What the Mystic sees does not rely on hope or belief. One only has to recognize the false, for Truth to surface of its own accord. It is present now and not in some future event that requires hope. Communication with God is always in Spirit and not in the words of men. Words can only point. That which is flesh is flesh and that which is spirit is spirit. It seems clear to me that flesh has not yet been exposed to you for what it is so that Spirit may surface. Otherwise you would not continue to oppose yourself. What need is there for a Book to dictate Truth or to look outside oneself when God is found at all times in his temple, of which temple you are. For the time is now that one worships God not in temples made with men's hands nor in Jerusalem nor in a Book but in Spirit and Truth which has no outside location.

 

Love Joseph

Joseph,

The Christian mystics had no concept of being separated from rationality because they knew that something is there. What communication from God the Christian mystic sees or hears, he knows is from God, and is that which he can communicate not only to himself but to others.

It would be unreasonable to think God would communicate with man in a way man cannot understand nor communicate. The Bible doesn't dictate truth, but is God's utterences to be written by another, His propositional revelation to us.

-

minsocal,

I wondered the same thing. But does one judge the truth by majority?

Matt 7: 13 "Enter by the narrow gate; for the gate is wide, and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and many are those who enter by it. 14 For the gate is small, and the way is narrow that leads to life, and few are those who find it."

 

The personal-infinite God has revealed His truth to man for the sharing. Some won't believe God has provided man with all the answers to his every need. From all that exists, which includes man and morality and knowledge and which explains the meaning of man, the personal-infinite God of Christianity is not the only plausable, but the only possible answer.

 

To not speak to our fellow man of the only answer to all of his concerns, is to do him harm.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

"God has revealed this wisdom to us through the Spirit. The Spirit scrutinizes all matters, even the deep things of God." —1 Corinthians 2:10

 

To understand spiritual things, we have to rely totally on the Holy Spirit because the Spirit instructs us in everything (John 14:26), We live in the Spirit and it is the major part if not all of our understanding.

(2 Corinthians 3:15-17) 15Even to this day when Moses is read, a veil covers their hearts. 16But whenever anyone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. 17Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom.

 

All the Sacred Books are special and are not ordinary writings because they have been inspired by the Holy Spirit and have extremely spiritual and truthful contents. They are mystical and difficult in many ways. If we have the freedom of Spirit, we see this in all the sacred teachings, if not we have a tendency to contract to the one thing we have studied intellectually.

 

(1 Corinthians 2:10-16) "The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God. 11For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the man's spirit within him? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. 12We have not received the spirit of the world but the Spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us. 13This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words.[a] 14The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned. 15The spiritual man makes judgments about all things, but he himself is not subject to any man's judgment:

16"For who has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct him?" But we have the mind of Christ." The mind of Christ I feel can be expressed as Christ consciousness, but many Christians would call this New Age as if it is bad. It is not negative.

 

God is not separate from anything; He is the Life of our life, the Reality within our own reality and the Soul within our being. Our union with God can be witnessed in our minds starting with the replication of the union between Christ consciousness and God's pure consciousness. This is the bringing of our own minds and wills into agreement with the mind of Christ, a consciousness where we experience pure consciousness and get submerged in the loving will of God. It starts us on a journey toward a new consciousness where Christ consciousness purifies the mind so it becomes free, not worried and unattached because it doesn’t want its own way, but the Lord’s way. Christ said, “Lord let Thy Will be done.” This simple phrase encourages the thoughtful and focused application of a profound spiritual practice that leads to untold reward by directing the creative force within to pure consciousness. It establishes a deep awareness of our unity with the power of God so we experience a greater good as a result of limiting our negative attitude. This positive awareness applied to specific needs in our daily life changes our circumstances helping us to pass from hardship and desire into a greater freedom than we have ever known. As we enter into a greater consciousness astonishing things happen that we thought were not possible, but we must take an honest look at our negative thoughts and let them go. Having the determination to expand our positive thoughts and take charge of our life will eliminate many problems, negative beliefs and unhappiness. We must have the courage to move forward into Christ consciousness where we are free from pain, desire, fear, conflict and worry. May we all have the freedom of Spirit to not be afraid and research our true being in every corner the Spirit takes us and not cower into tradition, physical symbols or behind people who preach the restricting of Spirit just because it comes from a source we are not accustomed to. The Spirit enters where the door is open and honors a closed mind by not entering where it is not welcome.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.


×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

terms of service