George W. Bush's Theology Of Empire

[des]

While I agree with Darby that it might have been overstated, it is about time, imo, that progressives start taking God and Christianity back (I don't mean to ourselves but at least that we can use those terms too). For so long Christianity has come to equal fundamentalism. Frankly I'm tired of it. But even the NY Times, hardly the conservative darling, does it. They say Christian and they don't even bother with putting fundamentalist in front of it. When Time listed the most influential Evangelicals they listed McLaren (perhaps not a flaming liberal, but certainly in the moderate camp), obviously everyone reading it assumes Fundamentalist. Everybody knows they mean fundamentalist as who else is Christian? Do I resent it, sure do.

 

Imo, family values doesn't at all have to do with gay marriage and has lots to do with how families live, poverty, etc.

 

To me it is confusing why somethign like the "ownership society" which basically has to do with people investing in the stock market is somehow apparently "Christian". Did Jesus say "invest my children"? I can see pros and cons (many more cons,imo, not the least of which is that we have to pay for it and even GWB has said it will do nothing about the actual SS "crisis") but I don't see any of them as being inherently Christian. (I also would content many liberal issues are no more "Christian".)

 

BTW, I dislike the welfare cheats line. I think it is way way overdone. Yes there were/always will be people who take advantage of the laws and run things to their liking (of any income). They are highly visible in some cases. But to say they represent the vast majority of poor on assistance is quite an exaggeration. Reagon got lots of political capital from telling anecdotal stories of welfare queens. I didn't like it then and I don't like it now. For every welfare cheat, there are prob. 10 rich people who screw the government as well. But I don't have any stats either.

 

 

--des

[darby]

des-

 

Just to clarify, I'm not using the "welfare cheats" line as a conservative talking point--I'm talking about things I personally see weekly. This certainly does not mean all on welfare or assistance. But there is defdinitely a percentage. I guess I am also compare the poor in America to the poor I have observed in trips to Mexico, Guatemala, and Somalia. There is absolutely no comparison. This does not mean, however, that I don't have compassion for their situation. Just that sometimes those we call "poor" in America have cars, satellite dishes, all types of electronics, etc. Those in 3rd world countries are fortunate if they have a relatively dry home and food that night. The only two areas I have been in America that would come close to reaching those conditions would be the mountains of Appalachia, and the colonias in South Texas (small shanty towns that pop up on the U.S. side of the border). I have some friends who have ministered to the Native Americans in S. Dakota who speak about pretty bleak conditions as well. My main point was that I trust Christian organizations, who usually address a person's spriritual condition, instead of government solutions, who don't.

 

As for the rich who screw the system, we ought to call them out as well (as is done here often!)

 

Bro Rog-

 

One can also not be truly Christian and indifferent to sin. God the Father is not indifferent in the Old Testament, nor is Jesus the Son or the Holy Spirit in the New Testament. This certainly includes, but is not limited to, the sin of social injustice. That's not all God is concerned with.

[des]

Any system can be abused. And welfare, along with all sorts of other systems has been and will continue to be abused. Sadly this si the case. I don't think poor people are worse abusers than anyone else. I think there is equal opportunity abuse of systems.

 

As for the poor in other countries, I would definitely agree, with the exceptions you point out. I think part of the problem with urban poverty is that it is surrounding by drugs, excess in the general culture, and a general hopelessness. In some countries you will see a group of pretty much naked kids playing soccer with a cabbage or something. They don't know anything else. Here pretty much everyone has tv (there are more tvs than phones), the kids are surrounded by visions of affluence (sometimes impossibly so).

 

--des