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AllInTheNameOfProgress

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Everything posted by AllInTheNameOfProgress

  1. Thanks JenellYB! "Sanctify This Love" would be perfect at a wedding. I like the words in these samples. Janet
  2. I just found a new "Progressive Christian" song. Enjoy! I just LOVE the lyric "Keep tryin' to find the balance of our love and our convictions.." Janet
  3. Boy, I hope the United Methodist Church follows suit soon!
  4. I love your profile pic!

  5. Neon - I think you're right on about God Help the Outcasts! Rivanna, I listened to a bunch of Bruce Cockburn today. "The Gift" is awesome! Thanks! Janet
  6. I think the controversy is that he still believes he is "evangelical". I agree that the ideas are not revolutionary, but I'm glad to know how far back they go, Karen! Janet
  7. Thanks, Karen, for posting this. It is a gem and makes me see why the book has become so popular (and also so hated). It calls us to be more than we are! Janet
  8. Two more ideas: "The Motions" by Matthew West and "The One Thing" by Paul Coleman. "The One Thing" starts with "Here I am in a river of questions. Can I pour my heart out to a listening ear?" and says "the one thing I don't question is You. You really love me like you say you do." Perfect for TCPC! "The Motions" is a call to feel God's passion to help us fight through the nothingness of life, which is why so many are seeking here. Feeling like there's something more... Let's keep sharing! Janet
  9. "Face of Love" by Sanctus Real. "Give Me Your Eyes" by Brandon Heath. More to come. These were just my first two thoughts. PLEASE let's keep this going. I need these kinds of resources for music ministry within the Methodist church. Janet
  10. "Is true faith one that is completely 'full', and totally sure of what is believed? Or is it one that keeps room for more growth and truth? " I think the latter... I thought maybe you should call this thread Open Minds Janet
  11. Ada, The post reminded me of the movie comedy, "Defending Your Life." Also, somewhat, of CS Lewis's "The Great Divorce," although in that book, the person does not get reborn, they just have infinite opportuties to move from separation from God to closeness with God, even after they die. The other good book I read on the subject was M.Scott Peck's "In Heaven As on Earth.", where the issues are figured out not in another life, but in a green room. Some things about that book I did not like, but I liked the idea of this life preparing us for the after life. Thanks for posting your thoughts! Jaent
  12. Adi, Me, too. There are beautiful "truths" in the music, even though I don't consider them literally "true." My fellow band mates laugh at my attempt to make sure all lyrics conform to my theology before we sing them They've gone so far as to call me the "Lyric Nazi," so I've tried to relax and understand that just because a particular song makes me cringe it may be precious to someone else. I've tried the thing of just letting the rest of the band sing words I don't want to, but my hubby says it just looks like I forgot to sing. For example, with the line "I'm forgiven, because you were forsaken", I would just leave out "because" and be fine with the rest of the song. I've also tried writing some music, but so far it's not topping the Christian Rock radio charts Thanks for bringing us back to the topic! Janet
  13. Mike, You're right that I'm obviously not the target market of that station, but we liberal Christians like music, too Interestingly, the webmaster from the station replied via facebook message to me today (I have shared your concerns about the Abounding Grace Minute with our General Manager. You were not the only one to express such concerns and I appreciate your doing so.) and I was glad to hear this, but disappointed that he removed my post off their wall. I understand it was not good advertising, but I think a public reply would have been better. I was also looking forward to hearing someone who supported such talk explain to me why.... As far as the question about what to do with black and white text, I haven't so far found the quote in the Bible that homosexuality is at the bottom of the downward spiral of depravity. In fact, there are many, many abominations and many offenses punishable by death in the Bible, but I don't see any kind of ranking... It is a very human perspective reflected in the Bible. Recently Leviticus 20:13 has come into the spotlight again in Africa, to try to justify the death penalty for male-male sex. 4 verses earlier, a child that curses his father or mother deserves the death penalty too. In another part of the Pentetuch (Numbers 5) there is a whole section on The Test for an Unfaithful Wife, where a jealous husband with no proof can have a priest make his wife drink a bitter potion that might kill her. Obviously humans have learned much about God since those times. I know I don't need to convince you, Mike -- again I'm just ranting.... Thanks for your wish of Peace. I know Jesus will grant that if I ask Him. Janet
  14. Hey all, I'm so frustrated with the lack of good progressive Christian rock radio!! Actually I can stand most of the music played on WAY-FM and KLOVE (our Christian pop stations), but yesterday I got so disgusted and angry I had to turn it off!! Between songs, they aired an "Abounding Grace Minute" from Calvary Chapel on my favorite WAY-FM. Let's just say it was very hateful and diametrically opposed to my thinking about homosexuality. The speaker was saying "The Bible teaches that there is no greater depravity in the downward spiral!!!!" Where does it say THAT??? Then right after, the speaker started saying how we should show Jesus' love to people struggling with this... and thought I heard God crying in frustration!! I was actually hoping God would toss a lighting bolt toward Calvary Chapel, but since I don't believe God causes disasters in our world.... Anyway, this has totally wrecked my ability to listen to Christian radio in the short term. It doesn't matter that I'm not gay. I'm trying to decide if I should circulate a petition asking the station to stop airing Calvary Chapel's hatred and misinformation. I certainly don't feel like giving them any more money to spread that kind of message! Sorry for the rant! Your thoughts? Janet
  15. "Any observation of Christianity is without understanding if it is said that Christianity has no final absolute for morality." We'll have to agree to disagree here. I believe early Christianity started with the idea that we are indwelt with the Holy Spirit to help us make decisions that glorify God. LOVE is the test of Christian morality, not submission to any given set of rules. Jesus showed us that when he broke the Sabbath and hung out with the "unclean." Here I agree with Dutch - that a personal God causes relationship rather than giving moral absolutes. We humans are still in the process of learning about God. Each of us sees God a little differently. As long as your Christian beliefs call you to glorify a God who values love and relationship more than anything else, you are probably working toward the same Kingdom on Earth that I am.
  16. "I believe in the Christian concept of the relationship with God, not as threatening, but loving. In that relationship, I know who the dominant personality is. My love for God causes me to be obedient, not the threat of punishment." We are right on the same page, here. "By His love for all man He has provided us a way to be with Him. The key is that I cannot discard the path He has lovingly made in order to make my own and still be able say I love Him. That demonstrates a distrust, not love." You're probably hearing a distrust in the limited human view of God we receive in the Bible, rather than a distrust of God. "Because I love Him I follow His guidance. I agree love is what Jesus was teaching, but shall we not neglect what else Jesus said, it's only by abiding in Him can we do good, and only through Him can we be with the Father." Well, I certainly know people that do much Good in the world that don't abide in Jesus. And, if Jesus is the embodiment of pure Love, then it is not a far leap to say "Love is the way, Love is the Truth, Love is the Life. No one comes to God without Love." DavidK, I'm not going to spend much more time on this, because I'm working on a project to help needy children in my town. I'll just say that it's fine with me if you believe that Jesus is the only way to heaven and that God would punish most of God's children in eternal torment. Neither of us know the full truth about God, so as long as your beliefs result in radical compassion, loving your enemy, love in action, joy, peace, patience, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, and self-control I think your ideas about God are working for you. Just please, don't try to motivate others by fear of punishment. It gives Christianity a bad name. Should we create another forum to talk about how our beliefs influence our actions? For example, if I believed God was going to send anyone who didn't believe in Jesus to Hell, I would spend every waking moment trying to get everyone to believe in Jesus. Instead, I see "Love God and Love Your Neighbor" as my mandate. I'm spending most of my time trying to help God's kingdom come on this earth. I'd be interested to hear how your faith influences your daily actions, because I'm guessing we'd come out much closer in the practice of our faith than we do in discussing the background theology. Janet (AITNOP)
  17. Have any of your read C.S. Lewis' The Great Divorce? What I like about it is that people can at any time (even after death) choose to give up past patterns of behavior that enslave them and move closer to God. I think M.Scott Peck's "In Heaven as on Earth" envisions a greeen room where people can take all the time they need to choose God. But I don't believe any human vision of the afterlife is perfect. I think whatever happens it will be much better and more clever than any of us could expect, just like many of the marvels of science that God created and has surprised us with. I love that there are multiple ways/layers of understanding God's relationship to humans. If the idea that God is a moral judge who will send people to everlasting torment causes some people to treat others in a more loving manner, it is helpful. When I was young, I behaved to avoid punishment by my parents. Now I behave because of my own integrity and I see that good behavior is its own reward. So for me, there is more meaning to a relationship with God than the fact that He is the standard for morals; an arbiter who will send some to hell for not confessing Jesus as Lord of their life. But that image works for many loving people, who are trying to make the world a better place, just as I am. I think that is why the Bible gives us the test of the Fruits of the Spirit to know who to follow and who not to follow. Rather than Jesus providing us access to a God who is too pure to have evil near, I believe God delights in being near to evil so God can change it. God is merciful loves every one of his children. Jesus attempted to show us that God delights most in the finding of the lost sheep. I used to have problems with that, because I felt like maybe I needed to misbehave in order to get God's love an attention. Now I understand that things we are ashamed of make us want to hide from God, and that God's door of forgiveness is always open to everyone. Repentance leads to growth, which is what God desires for each of us. Fear is one way of motivating repentance, but desire for closeness with God is another way. Among healthy adults, I don't think compliance through fear is a way to promote good relations. Compliance through love and self-sacrifice is the way Jesus was teaching.
  18. Casting Crowns is not PC. I'm certain that if their writer/lead singer (Mark Hall) and I had dinner, we'd have much to disagree about. However, they have a LOT of songs that work for us in worship. The songs I have suggested are in the pop/rock or adult contemporary genre. Janet
  19. What I'm trying to say is that we couldn't in good conscience let habitual rapists and pedophiles roam free to hurt more victims, but when they have been removed from society, God would ask us not to ignore them, but love them. That's not to say I've been involved in prison ministry, but Jesus said, "I was in prison and you visited me." Is there a way to be welcoming given these guidelines?
  20. We just need to be careful about excluding, because God loves us all the same. I'm sure a pedophile would be excluded from my church gathering if they were not trying to change. They would probably end up in jail, because they would be reported by church members. But then, continuing the fellowship behind bars would be the Christian thing to do IMO. It would be VERY difficult!!! Isn't that where Jesus calls us -- to radical places. Janet
  21. "The Motions" by Matthew West, "Meant to Live" by Switchfoot, "Brave" or "Legacy" by Nichole Nordemann, "Voice of Truth" by Casting Crowns...
  22. Bill, You have a way of asking questions that challenge me. When I read the topic, my first reply was YES!! However, that is because I was assuming you were talking about sexual relationships that involve real love, wanting what is best for an equal, rather than hurting someone or taking something from someone else. " So what is to prevent PC's from "progressing" to where these other forms of sexual expression won't simply be seen and accepted as an "alternate lifestyle"?" Of all those, the most likely would be incest between loving adults. I recently read of a case where a married couple did not know they were half-siblings, because one of them had been born through an affair. I have to say that the standard should be LOVE. It would NOT be comfortable for me to be welcoming to a pedophile, but we may need to even if it is outside our comfort zone. Do you think that Jesus would have had a meal with a pedophile? I do. The "church types" (like myself) would have objected, but he would have done it anyway. If a pedophile wanted to talk about God on this site, wouldn't we respond? Loving our enemies? It's super-hard. We don't have to condone behavior to invite a person into relationship with God. Janet
  23. http://tcpc.ipbhost.com/index.php?/topic/1373-progressive-christian-music/page__hl__music__fromsearch__1 This is a link to the song I was thinking of from a post back in April 2008. I'd love to swap ideas for songs with anyone who listens to "Christian pop/rock" about what songs are progressive. I'm SO glad to get the Ray Boltz tune reference, because we are going to do a service about who's in/who's out that involves some of the church's past/current embarassing stances regarding homosexuality. God's timing? Janet
  24. I handpick music off the Christian pop charts that isn't too Calvanistic. Some of the Casting Crowns stuff that is critical of the church works or "Lifesong". Brandon Heath's "Give Me Your Eyes," Sanctus Real's "Face of Love" and "Deeds". Also, I've written one... For some reason this is not letting me attach the file.... Janet
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