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Everything posted by thormas

  1. Tim Keller tweets on evolution

    Just a question or, perhaps, an observation: how can there be a 'predefined future potential' if a species adapts and develops (only) in response to its environment, i.e. by interacting with/responding to developments within the rest of creation? If that environment changes, then what a species interacts with changes and, therefore, how that species adapts and develops will (might) change. Its future potential, or one of its future potentials, is no longer possible (or perhaps even desirable) given the 'changed' present. Then again it's genetic predefinition might not enable it to adapt and thus extinction, while others have a greater genetic predisposition to adapt and survive. Now I have a headache and will go rest :+}
  2. Tim Keller tweets on evolution

    From the Christian perspective, or perhaps from my Christian perspective, we are not evolving towards God for that would suggest natural (perhaps inevitable?) process. Rather I believe that we can actualize our 'best//true' self or we move toward deification (only) if we incarnate God/Love. In the Christian perspective, the 'evolution of man' is first an action of God.
  3. Presidential Poll

    I'll just play a bit longer as I hate to do politics on such a site. Moses could be said to have been weak - but then again. Peter also had his strengths and weaknesses - as did David. But with Trump one suspects that God has left, if not the building, at least this vessel: the Light is off and no One is home. Trump's biblical education was definitely lacking when he cited his favorite passage: 'Two Cor.' Then again, hard to have any real education if you never ........read. As for praying, perhaps at some obviously public, religious events but he is/was a 'reality' star. As for public praise - he seems to have a problem understanding the 2nd part of the two great commandments and it will probably be a highlight reel upon meeting God at the pearly gates when the Lord begins to say: "when I was a Mexican, when I was a woman, when I was your daughter, when I was a faithful public servant working for the FBI............." and the Donald says, "when Lord, when did I bully you, when did I grope you........when did I yell to lock you up.....when, when, when? And, by the way Lord, Two Corinthians is my favorite." Trump can have no gods before him since he thinks he walks on water :+} Moses had abilities, Peter had game, David had skills ..............Trump not so much. However there is noting to worry about: Trump would never let anyone doubt that his power and image is anything less than god's and we know from experience that if God ever tried to send a messenger to enlighten the president, Donald would simply dismiss that 'fake' messenger or a 'fake' god and tell us all about it when he tweets on the can in the early morning hours...........Typical day in the life!
  4. Presidential Poll

    None The Sacred would like to part his hair and allow us to escape to freedom.
  5. Welcome Tom and don't worry about labels. But social justice and friends you love, including among those of us who are marginalized - not bad at all. Stick around start a conversation or join in on one that might be of interest. Sometimes we burn ourselves out after an extended back and forth but eventually we get back to it. Thormas
  6. Presidential Poll

    He's just at war with his everybody else...........:=} No war with Russia? Except for the cyber attack and the interference in an American election- but otherwise............!
  7. Presidential Poll

    I think he is a failure and an embarrassment to the country. His denial of the Russian 'interference," his attacks on the press, the FBI, Justice, his name calling, his bullying, his insistence on the wall, his taunting of other leaders, his ignorance, his infatuation with Fox news, people having to be careful how they present info because of his sensitivity, his treatment and dismissal of women, his lust for his daughter, and so much more. I think he has enough time................:+}
  8. Way to ruin a special moment Rom :=) And, much was meant to be amusing, including references to the Lord. One, at least not this one, is never fully finished 'thinking through' particular issues, this one included. But you are correct when you said, in spite of that, I have formed new beliefs. I am reminded of something Spong wrote in that sometimes you have to say what is not (deconstruct) before you attempt to say what something (might be) is (i.e. construct). So, in that spirit, long ago, and for various reasons, I made a decision against certain traditional, theistic, Christian beliefs about the 'afterlife - in line with other new beliefs I had come to. So, I know what I don't believe (previously listed above) and have some new notions but I honestly don't spend much time on it because other issues (example theodicy, incarnation, human actualization, etc.) are more interesting/intriguing at this time. Besides, I know what I believe about "God' - so I leave the details of the 'afterlife' to 'him' and occasionally return to it when time permits or something I read makes a connection and I explore it further. I was never a deist (as you were) so I don't know what deism might believe about life after death. And, I, too, didn't have parents who tried to inculcate such myths: they (the myths, the beliefs) were merely part of the landscape of a Catholic childhood. We believed them but nobody was delving into them, especially kids and teenagers - as we were busy with our lives. However, as I grew, studied philosophy and then theology, along with other subjects - I did become intrigued and delved into them. In part, I wanted to do - simply I was curious (that's what great professors did for me: they piqued my curiosity and enabled me to satiate it) and, also, it was my job - I was a theology teacher (before going into business) and you never know a subject as well as you do when you have to present it to others (in my and many teachers opinions). I agree with the 'constant energy input' but, for me, the human encompasses or is part of the so called 'immaterial.' It is all of a piece. I need a framework also (that is what systematic theology is about) but, and here is our difference, I don't need evidence or proof. Rather there is an openness to this sort of 'thing' and it 'makes sense' or resonates with me (my experience) - then I try to find ways to think and talk about it (for my self but also) for others who might be open - so it might become (more) reasonable and might 'speak' to them - and then they can take it and do with it what they will.
  9. I read theology not new age so it's not my cup of tea. when time permits will look at the link.
  10. Finally - agreement :+}
  11. They have changed. Not sure what you mean by new age so we will leave that on the side and no idea if it is (only) consciousness, something different or something more.
  12. Good Lord, Rom you do need clarification upon clarification, even though I listed things which are no longer beliefs to include, since we're quoting: "Angels, demons, the Devil/Satan, hell, limbo, and the traditional theistic notions of heaven and purgatory (but not the possible reality of these last two)." So it should be apparent from the ( ) following heaven and purgatory, that I consider them possible realities, i.e. not no longer believed. Further, 'continuation of life' was not listed in what I no longer believe - so it is a continuing and current belief (not dropped). So, to clarify the clarification: I have not lost belief in the meaningfulness and continuation of life (although I have no details of the latter). If by vernacular you mean the ordinary (formerly) accepted take on after life, the answer would be No given what I originally said: I no longer believe " ... ...traditional theistic notions of heaven and purgatory" but......... I continue to believe/allow for "the possible reality of these.... " - thus belief is maintained, albeit not the Catholic/Christian vernacular.
  13. meaningfulness and "continuation of life"
  14. I have no real opinion on the soul (simply not something I have given much thought to over the years) but I do, as previously stated on other threads, believe - without getting into it here - the meaningfulness/purposefulness/fullness of life which suggests that a 'continuation' of life or a 'deepening' of consciousness - beyond (more than) this particular life.
  15. I never considered it ups and downs (might have been?) just an evolution due to exposure to new insights. One Benedictine monastery is in Latrobe, PA but the Jesuit conferences and presentations sound like great possibilities. I go to similar conferences at UNC-Chapel Hill where I have attended Bart Ehrman seminars, Duke professors and others. Great stuff, never gets old.
  16. Craig, I like Francis and fondly remember, although a bit young, John XXIII and the first John Paul. Did not like JPII or Benedict. I knew Jesuits at Marquette but was more familiar with the Benedictines I knew while at college. Also, liked what we called the Seculars, ones who were our priests when I was growing up and later I taught with them (like all of us, some were great, others not so much). I have never given thought to Francis and the Jesuits, so nothing to offer on the spot. I think there are many orders who live the teachings of Jesus. As for the sex police, again I don't think much about that 'function' anymore but it was the a Benedictine priest/monk/philosopher who taught one of the most popular courses my senior year: The Phenomenology of Sexuality. I am not nor have I ever been a big fan of asceticism (as I understand it) and in terms of the Catholic orders (although I liked the Franciscans and Jesuits) the Benedictines were the ones I knew best: some were brilliant scholars, others simple brother who ran the fire department on campus, picked up a blade of grass and played it like a musical instrument to entertain and amaze a group of 'world wise' college guys, directed the theater, were artists, lived in the dorms as Resident Assistants and when I was sick Freshman year, made me my first hot toddy which cured me. My first (and only) miracle:+} Even the philosophy scholar I mentioned, in his spare time, tended his garden, fondly remembered to this day as Sebastian's Garden. I have a friend who loves Martin and I have saved some articles on/by him but have never concentrated on him. And I have not does the kind of study required to comment on your views of the Jesuits. What was amazing was that I got my masters in Systematic Theology from a Catholic Seminary in the 80s and we studied a number of authors that were later silenced or 'edited.'. But we had priests, educated in some of the best schools of theology in the world, who encouraged these works (and truly open discussions/debates) and we had classes with seminarians (I wasn't, nor did I ever want or intend to be, one), lay men and women, teachers, nuns and women priest/ministers from other denominations. If that mindset had continued...........might have been a different world. Sort of interesting how the conservatives are pushing back on Francis. I would be glad to try to answer any future questions or discuss Catholicism (in addition to Christianity in general) and I will look into Martin a bit more.
  17. There you go! But Santa is no trivial matter.........
  18. Trivial? Humor Rom, humor!
  19. Deleting 'god'

    Right so you are saying, IYO, the site derailed or ........... violated what you think are the teachings/actions of Jesus. So we agree violate or derail: either works. Although, I disagree with the assessment. 'Worthy' - and now comes judgement - a violation or derailment of the teachings of Jesus. Not really clearer (poh-bahs?) and I would remind you of the etiquette (capacity to comprehend?) but as you said : "I (i.e. you) exit hereby?" Don't derail or violate your word.