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thormas last won the day on October 1

thormas had the most liked content!

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22 Very Good

About thormas

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  • Birthday July 20

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  1. Heathens! 2

    Perfect, puts me in the Holiday mood. Forward to Trump and Moore.
  2. Heathens! 2

    Manger things indeed. I like it.
  3. Was Paul gay?

    My position is straightforward and in the thread. I did answer your direct question earlier. Now you have reworded it and asked again. Asked and answered - so, again I refer you to the thread. Read!
  4. Was Paul gay?

    Done and already done, all positions are clear in the thread - simply read with some attention and leave the preconceptions at the door.
  5. Was Paul gay?

    You are missing everything yet again, go back and try reading the thread.
  6. Was Paul gay?

    Rom: another swing and a miss! Participation is optional but accurate reading is required. Try it.....might help, but then again...............
  7. Heathens! 2

    Good one Burl - amazing likeness!
  8. Was Paul gay?

    I'm taking a firm stand right in the middle: I don't think the discussion of a gay Paul is absurd and intellectually null (however it is frustrating because there is no answer) but I question if Spong even makes a case (or, at the very least, it is certainly not, in my opinion, a strong one). To me Spong is forced (for reasons given earlier). However, I will revisit Spong just for argument sake. I agree with what Borg said of Spong (cited earlier) and recognize that Spong is not a critical biblical scholar. To me it is not outrageous to speculate (that Paul or anyone is gay) but 'the only genuine reason' is, I think, speculative in itself: it is and can only be an exercise in speculation. And I agree, no belittling (unless it's biblical aliens) just don't participate if it is not of interest or seems too 'off the wall.'
  9. Was Paul gay?

    I thought we were done with poor Paul. Given the acceptance of same sex relationship in that era and in certain cultures, it seems one would still have to wonder if Paul indulged. Of course he lived in a 'Hellenic culture' but he was still not only a practicing Jew but one, so 'taken with it,' that he actively defended it by his actions as Saul. That and his apocalyptic take on the Kingdom/Jesus might weigh against him being sexually active. But who knows? At this point in time and biblical scholarship, it appears unanswerable. For me (although I don't give it much priority), given his faith and view of the 'end' - the odds seem to lean against same (any?) sex relationships. But, again, I don't know. And, I don't care - it does not impact my belief or values. Spong was/is a big supporter of those who should not be persecuted or ostracized because of their sexuality and a 'gay' Paul might ease the way to change views. But one wonders if Spong's passion led him to look for 'evidence' that biblical scholars did not find - and was not there. I think the alternative that many people have gone to is they simply don't accept previous Christian or religious (ore even secular) condemnation of same sex orientation or practice. They have simply said 'we disagree' and the result is a much more accepting world (or parts of that world) and eventually/hopefully the rest of the world will catch up. The world changed, our worldview changed: greater understanding of how we grow into our humanity, greater understanding of human sexuality, knowing people who have revealed themselves as gay/lesbian has had its impact and we have simply said (whether Paul was gay or not), the bible is wrong and we can use the bible, if necessary, to defend this position: the teaching on Love, Paul's understanding that we are all one in Christ. I don't need a gay Paul to accept my gay brother, the 5 lesbian women or the gay priest who taught with me years ago in a Catholic high school or a college friend's childhood family of 8, half of whom were gay, while the other 4 were straight.
  10. Was Paul gay?

    Wrong again! Read............the thread. Most of the responses on this thread were about the books and canon of the NT - it moved from the title topic pretty fast. I actually don't care about Paul's sexuality - one way or the other (nor, given his letters, is there any there, there - to make a determination). Rather, I am interested in his letters (his theology)- the letters that were actually his - and I don't agree with all of what Paul wrote. I would have to go back and check but I have read, all or part of 5 books on Paul and the concentration is not his sexuality, - it is not even mentioned (if memory serves). This, is in part, a Spong thing - and as previously mentioned, I part with Spong (not a biblical scholar) on some of his comments/conclusions. As for other characters, see above. But if you have an interest in the sexuality of other figures in the NT or if you think such appetites matter- start a thread.
  11. Was Paul gay?

    Rom: a swing, a miss. You assume too much (plus I never liked crossword puzzles, too busy) - Paul and I were not honing debate skills, we had genuine interest in the subject (evident in the sharing), had disagreements but continued - and I was motivated to do additional reading, thankful for the exchange and look forward to further discussions on a range of topics of interest to thinking people. Participation is optional and we don't all take part in each and every thread. So................
  12. Was Paul gay?

    Oh, well but the good news is the books are up to date. So no worries.
  13. Was Paul gay?

    Perhaps no difference but I was always informed that the Protestants were more governed (for lack of a better word right now) by the Biblical Word (and more versed in it) and the Catholics, less so and truly 'into' the sacraments. Twas an enjoyable discussion. Thanks.
  14. Was Paul gay?

    A possible difference between us is that I assume you were raised Protestant (but not positive) while I was raised Catholic. Protestants were brought up on the book, we concentrated on the sacraments. I remember in great detail practice for first communion, first confession, confirmation and marriage prep (which I did as a nicety until I started to debate the priest who ignored by Protestant bride to be. We, Catholics, heard the weekly readings but did not focus on the bible; I never had a class on the Bible all through Catholic schooling to 12 grade. So without this focus, I find that I am intrigued by the bible and biblical scholarship but it never ruled in my life. I could be wrong on your upbringing and it is not about which is better, merely noting the difference in expressions.