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thormas last won the day on December 30 2019

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About thormas

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  • Birthday July 20

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  1. JoWillie, Is this a good thing or a bad thing, in your mind, that America was not so founded? i guess it might be bad if one thinks of the USA as a Christian nation or would like it to be a Christian nation but it is good if one is a secularist or simply a religious person who believes and accepts a separation between Church and State. I thought it might be the former for you but I'm now allowing that it might be the latter. Of course, we do have the trumpster who postures as if it is the former, conducts himself as one who separates yet respects neither Church or State and through it all consistently violates both Scripture and the Founding Documents ;+{
  2. This one is perfect Burl especially with Joseph 'leaning' away from the horn.
  3. Apologizes Ranger as I misread your comment on the above.
  4. Remembered he was God? If he was not fully man, there is no salvation. But exactly right, "that we might become the sons of God" goes to sharing the life of God...........and the continued incarnating of the divine in the human (although we are not and do not become God). In the transfiguration where did the other two guys come from? The certainly look 'glorified' but where did they come from, especially given the Jewish understanding of 'after death' at the time of Jesus.
  5. Now it's lol on me: I meant wholly not holy. However, I think both are appropriate (and it is the same topic). I can't remember the author but it was once said. "I was born a man, now I must learn to be human." To learn and become human is possible only when one loves, when one embodies (and is the likeness of) God/Love or to put the initiative on God, when God/Love 'resides' in man. This is (the continuing process of) incarnation: even without sin, the Lover would have 'become One' with the Beloved. Incarnation was not a rescue operation it was the purpose of creation: God always intended to incarnate and thereby empower man to become Human and have Abundant Life.
  6. You can't know this or perhaps you can but it is the opposite of what you believe. Again the Prodigal rejects his father's will but when he turns back, after he reaches his lowest point, the Father not only accepts him but rejoices to the point of throwing a party. God is against the sin but as the Prodigal indicates, he is not against the sinner and neither should the good son be against or judge the sinner. Interesting thing about judgment is that it presents a moment of crisis, on one side is chaos on the other is opportunity. Judgment is for man, it is for the sinner - the opportunity to change must always be there. Plus God cannot be All in all if 'eternal judgment' means hell or the eternal loss of God You should read David Bentley Hart's 'All Shall be Saved' as he gives some startling information from the scriptures which basically show that we have had it wrong about 'hell.'
  7. Look forward to discussions with a 'thoughtful, logical Christian.'
  8. Ranger, You seem to equate an atheist with a sinner but where is it in the NT that the two are shown or said to be the same? Don't give me an interpretation, show me the exact text. One of my favorite lines is (paraphrasing) "it is not the one who says 'Lord, Lord' it is the one who does the will of God." So it seems that the emphasis is on the doing of the will of God - which is to love. If the atheist loves not only 'those that love her' but many others, from the neighbor to the stranger, such love shows the compassionate concern and care that Jesus showed. The atheist is doing what the Father wills and it matters not if she calls "Lord, Lord." Who enters the Kingdom of God, the atheist who loves or the Christian who does not really do such a good job of loving, such as a Hitler or a Trump? LOL!!!!
  9. Ranger, Then there is the insight of Athanasius: 'God became man and so that man could become God' - or a preferable translation is 'so that we might become deified.' We are to become the sons and daughters of God. I'll leave how literally we should take this to you, but if one shares the life of another (say a boy to a Father figure) and makes important to him what is important to that Father figure (by the way this is the definition of obedience) then the boy shares in and participates in the life of the Father. And as he grows, the Father sees himself in the son and seeing that boy is 'like' seeing the Father. This is what we are born for and I suggest it is not adoption, it is the fulfillment of our 'nature' given to us in creation, that is realized (in God). Gotta run again - more on the honey-do list.
  10. Ranger, Maybe I missed it but Jesus preaches the Kingdom to be established in this world - that was the Jewish expectation and he was a Jew of that time. Where does he plainly distinguish between Kingdoms? Don't give me your interpretation give me the words of Jesus. Note: I'm breaking this down into smaller segments to make it easier to read and respond as the long responses are amazingly long. Also, waiting on your site info again. You can't transfer from here per the rules of engagement but at least 75% of what I write is offline and is substantially different from what I put as a final response so I can post on both sites, as others also post on more than one site, without being in violation of the site terms.
  11. Ranger, this is one of those statements that has to be explained - not to me but to an audience or congregation. How does God make someone understand and if they don't understood but only God can do it, it seems logical to assume that God has failed. Or, if only God gives understanding and if someone doesn't, they cannot be responsible so they must be righteous because they would be innocent and not responsible for not understanding. Now I know you disagree but this must be explained in a way that makes sense to a person of any age, of all ages in today's world.
  12. Actually, we do - simply not by ourselves but in relationship with God and in the human response to God (i.e. faith). God has no need to intervene, he is already here.present, however I do agree that the Word in and through the words of man, does or can bring enlightenment. It is not simply believing, if you mean giving assent to truth as information, it is the responding that 'makes' is a child of God. Salvation or human fulfillment is the work of God - in relationship wit man but such salvation or wholeness is not only in and through Christ for this limits God.
  13. Too harsh. If you come across a kid who can't hear, are they slothful or do they just need someone to recognize that they are different and take the time to learn sign language and 'translate' the spoken gospels to one they can see the gospel? The fault is not always in the receiver, this is not always easy stuff: time, care and patience are required. Enough for now, we exhaust me :+}
  14. Jesus used parable, we are not really parable people in the 21st C. If you don't translate it, don't explain it in ways that new generations, new people can really understand it - it goes nowhere, it falls and does not grow. Sure he does. That is the risk and beauty of creation. God, in my view is not merely a supernatural being, residing in his external world and occasionally intervening, miraculously, in the natural world. We have our being in God or God is and has always been with us in the ordinary, everyday moments of life, of our world. I suggest that God is always incarnational, he always works in and through us in order to enable, empower us to become his child, his Likeness. Look at Jesus, he was the Word in the flesh. How much easier to hear than when it is spoken by one such as us. But it always is. His Word is always spoken through our words; his Spirit/Love is always given in our love. If God spoke to us directly, out of the blue, many of us world drop dead :+} However if we have done something wrong, and in a discussion with another, we come to realize our error, how we have hurt another and if we change - then the old is dead and a new person has emerged. We have become different, we have become more Like God. Do you think the words that we heard, the words that revealed the error of our ways, the words that enabled us to heal, the words that gave us life were only human words? The Word that is Life, speaks in and through us, to give enlightenment and life to us. The Spirit that is Love, give us love's encouragement and empowers us to respond to the word and be more like Christ. We are the co-creators: the one who was willing to help us, to speak to us, the one who loved and encouraged us is co-operating with God. God always has the initiative but it was this person who co-created with God so that the other could hear, respond and be on the Way. Was Hitler a co-creator? Why not? There was no willingness to be open to the Word and the Spirit, no willingness to co--operate with God or in older terms, there was no openness to be the instrument of God. Ranger, read Baum - you might enjoy it.
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