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Burl

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Everything posted by Burl

  1. The original Heathens! Topic was lost in the last software upgrade.
  2. We cannot rationally reconcile the rational with the suprarational. We need to define pragmatic questions and work from there, realizing an ontological description of God is not achievable. We can only define signs which point to God. I can tell someone how to move northwards by following the pole star, but if they insist on trying to jump to Polaris vertically they are absurd. I can tell someone how to move towards God, but if they insist on a definition instead of following the signs they are in a semantic trap and will get to Polaris before they get to God.
  3. A similitude I like is our communications network of independent devices which operate in connection. Phones, computers, power sources, cell towers and mail boxes, tv sets &c. Sometimes individuality is the best approach, other times the mutual identity depending upon the specific question being asked. Obviously the power from Niagara Falls is both external and internal to a cellphone, but what specific question does that truth helpfully answer?
  4. Not wrong Joseph but not helpful either. You are still mired in semantics, and cannot say God is completely separate or completely internal. In annointing, oil on skin is both internal and external. This is exactly the reason for crismation in many traditions: God is not entirely internal or external but both at once.
  5. Burl

    Heathens! 2

    For those who never tire of noodling about the nature of consciousness.
  6. Burl

    Evolution and Original Sin

    I agree. One needs not even open a bible to see the destructive effects of sin. Islam with it's struggle against one's nafs and stoicism are both congruent with the idea that man is intended to be the master of his desires and not the other way around.
  7. New study on effects of yoga and meditation on personality. https://qz.com/1307380/yoga-and-meditation-boost-your-ego-say-psychology-researchers/
  8. We agree. Acceptance always. No hierarchy of sin. But acceptance does not equate to approval or to labeling sin as righteousness. And for each individual, an effort is expected to admit to sin and decrease its incidence and severity.
  9. Mark 7:21-23 English Standard Version (ESV) 21 For from within, out of the heart of man, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, 22 coveting, wickedness, deceit, sensuality, envy, slander, pride, foolishness.23 All these evil things come from within, and they defile a person.” Jesus did not 'hang out' with sinners because he thought sin was acceptable. That is a very silly idea.
  10. Purity was the basis of Hebrew sacrficial worship, a practice in which Jesus participated. Remember "I came not to change the law, but to fufill it"? Remember Jesus preaching against adultery, divorce, prostitution and fornication? Morality is overstressed in many churches, but it was an essential part of Jesus' message.
  11. We are to attempt to live as sinlessly as we can, and certainly not capitulate to narcissism and our animal desires. The idea that God cannot abide if the level of impurity rises too high is a consistent theme. Moral purity not everything, but it is the foundation on which our spiritual connection with God rests. Christianity is not a political party or social movement. It is a means of making a more vibrant connection with the Divine.
  12. Catholicism has the sacrament of reconciliation (confession) and penance where people can non-judgmentally discuss their own sins in person and complete confidence. Luther quibbled about if sin was forgiven with or without an ordained priest, and this valuable tradition was unfortunately relegated to superstition. Jesus forgave the adulteress, but he also admonished her to "go and sin no more".
  13. Burl

    Heathens! 2

    St. Papillion of Doggo
  14. Thank you for your generous response, but I was not trying to poke you or Lutherans. Rather I was attempting to use your post as a springboard and dive into the deeper waters of sin and forgiveness and wash off the sociopolitical dust from the issue. I do believe the ECLA finds the ten commandments a binding document. The questions to me revolve around 1) why do most churches seem to consider gblt related sin differently from heterosexualy related sin and 2) why does the church take its lead from the unchristian realm of politics and not from Scripture? I fully support the acceptance and baptism of gblt persons. I have seen Doré's Biblical Illustrations and it seems obvious heaven has all the interior decorators But working from politically constructed logical frameworks and not Scripture is really abandoning the gospel.
  15. What is the Lutheran doctrine on fornication, pre-marital sex, adultery, prostitution and coveting thy neighbor's partner? Is it identical for any sexual orientation, or is what poses as gblt acceptance simply a distraction from sexual licentiousness? Do gblt get a special dispensation? Turning control of any basic instinctual drive state to an empty ethos where the ends justify the means is sinful. Lust, gluttony, pride etc. are all cardinal vices. People sin regularly, and people are forgiven regularly. This is a basic function of Christianity. It is entirely reasonable to accept gblt behavior without approving of it. That is the heart of forgiveness. But sinning "with a high hand", as he KJV poetically translates parading sin as righteousness, is not Christian. Certainly gblt persons should be accepted equally but the end result - in pro and anti gblt churches - is ignoring heterosexual immorality, which is almost 100% of the real concern. In almost any Christian church, save the Metropolitan, gblt attendance is negligable. Often 0%. The sin issue is with the overwhelming heterosexual majority but pastors are not going anywhere near that subject because the pews would empty out like a dump truck. They keep the focus on gblt folks who quit the church decades ago.
  16. Burl

    USA liberal / conservative - divide

    An outstanding resource on the American circuit rider period is The Autobiography of Peter Cartwright. Thrilling, true story of a Methodist circuit rider in the Wild West. Required reading for male study groups imo.
  17. Burl

    USA liberal / conservative - divide

    Further back to the C18 and the circuit riders on the American frontier. Also why the US is the place Darbyism and uneducated preachers took root.
  18. Burl

    USA liberal / conservative - divide

    Sorta kinda. The descriptor 'Evangelical' was used to describe a particular church polity where everything was owned and directed by a single pastor. Billy Graham is the prime example. No conciliarity with other churches, no particular common education. Many will not accept baptisms not performed by their worship leaders. Contrast with magisterial churches which have a top-down hierarchy or the communal churches where the community runs the churchnand hires the pastor for a salary. Because every Evangelical church is unique and unsupervised , they vary widely in theolgical accuracy and preaching style.
  19. Burl

    Evolution and Original Sin

    He woulda worn the sweater if his momma gave it to him. Regardless of personal opinions, the reader must retain the author's entire context, and the biblical context in general. One cannot simply ignore what the author writes about the post-crucifixion period because he finds it implausible. When the author speaks of Jesus explaining the upcomng events one is not free to interpret those comments without full consideration of how the author intended them to fit together with his description of what happens later in his narrative. Matthew is clearest. Jesus never spoke to the general population except in parables, and did so so that they would NOT understand. He later gathered the disciples and taught them the true meaning in secret. Then the disciples taught the people and each disciple selected a dozen disciples of their own to form the 72. The 72 were sent out to the community. It was a well organized church.
  20. Burl

    Evolution and Original Sin

    Jesus taught things to his disciples, who then were sent out to teach the good news to the four corners of the earth. By Pentecost, the person who was killed and resurrected has surpassed this plane and was seated at the right hand of the Father. Yes, he taught that he was the way and the life, and that no one could approach the Father except through him. He taught that he must die and suffer or the comforter could not be sent. Those teachings must be interpreted through his actions. Teaching is no longer for Pharisee disciples but for the entire world. The teaching was explaining about the changes which were then in the future, but are now in the past. Jesus life, death, resurrection and session completely changed all humans relationship with God. God had now experienced fear, temptation, a physical being and senstions - things he knew about but knowledge and experience are two different things. One cannot logically abstract what Jesus taught the disciples except through the lens of his passion and beyond. If your Jesus was concerned with sweaters you would know all about wool and knitting but refuse to put the sweater on and warm up.
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