Gardener

Paul, Your view on the Bible is a reasonable one. However, I think you're being a bit optimistic when you say that "many more people are becoming familiar with biblical scholarship." I wish that were true, but I have my doubts. Of course, many conservative Christians are close-minded when it comes to extra-canoncial writings, but I fear that even liberal Christians don't know much about other gospels, or even that they exist.

Yes, I was referring to the canonization of the Bible, not of saints. "Excessive reverence for a thing"; this is why current views of the Bible constitute idolatry. Conservative Christians believe it is "God's Word" and quote verses such as in Hebrews 4 (God's Word is a two-edged sword...) anachronistically using it as some kind of proof. Hebrews was a letter, much like Paul's letters, and Paul, as arrogant as he was, never dreamed his letters would ever be regarded as Sacred Scripture. In fact, the mere name of the BIble (they all say "Holy Bible" on the cover) is idolatrous. How can a thing be holy? Even liberal Christians maintain this archaic idolatry in their worship services. I frequent an Episcopalian Church where a huge Bible is carried out in a parade, behind some robed guy with some sacred stick, and held up like the Holy Grail as we all rise.

Canonization is a form of idolatry, which, ironically, is proscribed in the Bible.

Thank you, kay, for that reference. I just checked out one of Pagels' books, and it is fascinating. But... it also makes me angry. John was chosen to be included in the Bible, while many other gospels were not. Yet, many of the "losers" in the political battle of canonization have important perspectives on Jesus. I hate censorship. Also, it seems odd to me that so many Christians claim to love Jesus, yet they don't want to learn as much as they can about him. You would think that they'd want to read all of the gospels, not just the ones some 4th century politicians approved of.

Thanks Joseph, Soma, and Eric. "A weed is a plant whose virtues have not yet been discovered." I think Emerson said that. So, all I need to do is to find a way to spin my failures into victories...

I recommend books by Bart Ehrman. He is academically sound, yet readable.

Thanks for the replies. Yes, I think there is something true about "downsizing" in the broad sense. I'd like to get rid of a bunch of crap in my garage and attic, but also I need to downsize my expectations in life and be more content with simple things. This is easier said than done, of course. My health is only going to get worse, and it looks like I'll never be successful professionally, so I need to focus elsewhere.

This is a very interesting interpretation, one I haven't heard before. The Wizard of Oz has been interpreted as a precursor to the Atheistic Theology of the 1950s. "The Great and Powerful Oz" is a creation of man, but the people need him because they have to have something to believe in. Dorothy needs faith in order to go back home, but an angel (good witch) finally explains to her that it is really faith in herself.

John was my favorite Gospel when I was a fundamentalist. Now it's my least favorite; it should never have been included in the Bible. I was an atheist for two decades, and because of that experience I have a fresh perspective on the Bible. I'm not limited by any preconceived notions; there are no "givens." The Bible is certainly not a cohesive "book" by any means. It is a loose collection of writings from dozens of authors over a period of several centuries, and well over half of it was stolen from the Jewish religion and has nothing to do with Jesus. Also, there were dozens of gospels in the two centuries following Jesus, so the "four" Gospels is just a random number. It was a bunch of Roman politicians in the 4th century that, for political reasons, invented this "sacred book" called the Bible. Jesus certainly had no Bible, and when he referred to scripture (i.e. Jewish writings) he often contradicted it (e.g. Matthew 5). So, if you look at the "four Gospels" with no preconceived notions, you will notice that John is radically different. The other three narrate events and have lots of miracles and parables of the humble servant Jesus. In John we have an arrogant Jesus who keeps saying "I Am this or that", even equating himself with God. And, of course, the first chapter of John is pure Gnosticism (nothing against Gnosticism, but many other potential books of the Bible were rejected on grounds of having Gnostic influence). Yes, I'm a heretic. But I love Jesus (who also was a heretic who started a new religion).

This is an interesting thread, but I have little to add except solidarity. Depression sucks.

Hello It seems like there are good people here, so I'll try this forum and see. I got "born again" at age 18, did some mission work, then had a crisis and became atheist at 25 and stayed that way for 2 decades. Then I nearly died in a car wreck and tried to get back with Jesus. I'm over-educated, leftist, professional failure, have a bad marriage, bad health, depressed about parents who are dying a very slow and painful death as they spend all their savings on health expenses, and I have no idea what to be when I grow up. I'm a bald white guy living in the Ozarks Bioregion and I'm 53. And I garden. Well, that's me in the proverbial nutshell.