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romansh

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Everything posted by romansh

  1. Hi valentulum I live in the West Kootenays. I am not familiar with any "safe" communities as such in my area. Good luck
  2. No doubt there are many kinds of judgement. I like and dislike I agree and disagree both of these I have no problem with. Then there is I think something is right or wrong (in a moral sense) I think some thing is good or bad (evil) There is a high degree of correlation with these two judgements with the first two. And then there is judgement, ie to chase an elusive truth ... I winnow out what does not make sense ... to try and understand.
  3. I get what you are saying - our assumptions can be: axioms definitions self evident truths ... if there are such things. In between our assumptions and our beliefs we have corroborating evidence and logic though. I would hope; otherwise our assumptions simply become our beliefs.
  4. Fatherman As far as I can see we (and our beliefs etc) are a reflection of our environment. ie What we have: read, experienced, been taught. learnt, have eaten and imbibed. Plus various combinations thereof and no doubt other factors. Seeing genetics as somehow separate is a useful separation, but it does no harm to think of it a reflection of our (deep) past environment. The others above are just reflections of a more immediate environment.
  5. Welcome Greg Are you fault finding "the act of fault finding"?
  6. In another sense of word I do choose things that we don't often think about consciously. For example at work when I walk back to the car park, I choose a path very often I simply go without thinking about it consciously. I can never take a direct route to the car. So in this sense I have chosen a route to the car. In short we make conscious and unconscious choices and ... belief in this sense falls into the unconscious category. I don't consciously choose to believe that we should be respectful of others, juts that I occasionally remember I should try to be.
  7. Speaking personally I am not overly familiar with Paul's words. So generally I don't do anything Paul's words. I don't know why I reminded of a Morecambe and Wise skit. Eric sits down at a grand piano and ostentatiously announces he is going to play a some famous piano concerto and starts playing chopsticks. Ernie points out he is playing the wrong notes for the concerto. Eric replies they are the right notes but the wrong order.
  8. I choose to believe something. Funnily I don't choose to believe things. I find myself either believing them or not.
  9. Ultimately does not matter who wrote what when. What might be more important is what we do with "Paul's" words today ... and why fixate on the truthiness of religious texts?
  10. Joseph What I find interesting about the quote is that it asks us to "accept" rather than "believe". It is a subtle difference that I am having trouble teasing out the original intent. It could be acceptance could be seen in a similar sense to accepting a gift. This could be a way of looking at the apathy versus acceptance conundrum.
  11. I was intrigued by Terry's eleven beliefs in his introduction thread and rather than rebut there I started this thread. Welcome Terry by the way. As a self described devout agnostic, I try and avoid belief as such. Plainly I fail miserably. The one core belief I do hold is that beyond my perception there is a reality out there and somehow my perception is a reflection of that reality. Not necessarily an accurate reflection though. Otherwise I end up in some solipsistic quagmire and I just don't want to go there. After that, this quote works for me: by Siddhãrtha Gautama (Buddha): Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do not believe in anything simply because it is found written in your religious books. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders. Do not believe in traditions simply because they have been handed down for many generations. But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it. When I read Karen Armstrong's book The Case for God (the title was a little misleading, I thought), I could not buy into much of what she wrote. But, there was one line that struck home where she suggested that Christians (and Muslims) were too fixated on what they believe and less so on what they do. I also understood this would be true for agnostics and atheists as well, it is not what we don't believe or actively disbelieve that matters ... it is what we do. Rather than believe stuff I try and understand (I believe). ex pat living in BC
  12. pain, suffering, and death is in this world that some say is an illusion I would agree with Paul that it is real in that world. The suffering is real, No one is suggesting that these phenomena are not real. They are not mutually exclusive. When I go to see a magic show ... the illusion of tiger appearing in cage and the attractive assistant disappearing are all real. Illusions are real. It is our interpretation of that reality that we have to consider. I was reading an article in the New Scientist on how humans appear to suffer more than say some of our simian cousins. And the article was speculating on how evolution had given us an enhanced capability to suffer and what evolutionary advantages this may have bestowed on the human race.
  13. Goodnight from up above to down under
  14. No, But I am thinking about writing one. Working title Twenty things to be agnostic about.
  15. but that doesn't deny that we physically exists This moves to the unfolding universe thread. When we have a vortex in water, say after a paddle stroke: That vortex certainly exists, but what is it? It is water being drawn in and thrown out back to a greater whole. The vortex does snuff out eventually and by and large the sun is our rower and the paddle our food. Not a perfect analogy but it works for me.
  16. Based on our previous discussions I think I know where you're coming from, but for me, my perception is that a view that starvation and death is illusory just doesn't make sense . While I am fairly certain starvation does cause death. I am far from certain there is "life". We can play endless games on what is life. ... It is like pornography, I know it when I see it. Supreme Court Justice Potter Stewart. or on my home forum ... http://www.agnosticsinternational.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=1407
  17. How do we know when our access is limited and when at other times is it unlimited? Surely there must be a point where reality aligns with, well, reality, and not illusion? As agnostics we don't know. We go where the evidence takes and hope for the best. As scientists we keep on testing along the way. I suggest "The Self Illusion" by Bruce Hood ... as an easy read ... and if you prefer I can point to a video or two.
  18. Some things are illusory, ... Everything is illusory, or at least as far as we can tell, Paul. That does not make those things any less "real", just that our access to those things is limited.
  19. Father, I know the most important reality of my life is that you love me and that you look at me this moment with such tenderness and love as no one ever could; I must admit I am not sure in what way the universe loves me. And how it is tender is beyond me. Its indifference is spectacular. I am your only child. Oh well ... You desire to forgive me and to heal me where I want healing so that this day will be a brand-new beginning with “a future full of hope.” While the Bible does preach in places forgiveness, I think giving up the act of judgement is a more consistent message. The universe does not judge. Whatever I have to face today, one thing I know, is that you will be there with me as my best friend, helping, consoling, strengthening, healing and guiding me. Well that is one way at looking at the universe. There is absolutely nothing I have to be afraid of. Here I am in agreement ... lack of free will 'n all. All this I know because your Son has told us so I must admit I struggle with concepts which take religious texts about reality and then anthropomorphize them, especially in some literal sense. But then I don't think christs-love can help him or herself; so I suppose, I should make an effort and cut some slack.
  20. Overcast, I don't know if you have come across the concept of the Bicameral Mind - proposed by Julian Jaynes. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicameralism_(psychology) It is outside of my expertise and I am far from sure of the veracity. Dawkins' take on it was ... "It is one of those books that is either complete rubbish or a work of consummate genius, nothing in between! Probably the former, but I'm hedging my bets." But based on personal introspection it is not impossible. My take on it would be: if true, a few thousand years of evolution would not be enough to eliminate it from our population.
  21. I can't feeling that quantum soup that we exist in has by and large congealed. Also this consciousness we experience is an illusion. After all, my awareness and thoughts are a result of the chemistry and physics going on my brain, which in turn is the result of the universe "unfolding".
  22. A couple of observations: We define mental illness into and out of existence. Spirituality seems to be different things for different people. For me spirituality is the few moments that I have had in my life that I was in awe. One such moment, as an example, was looking down a microscope looking at a pre-zygote when my wife and I were trying IVF. Those four tiny cells - potential human being. Anyway is not acceptance (as opposed to apathy) a form of spirituality?
  23. Perhaps --- what we call (G)god and the universe are one?
  24. Three Joseph Campbell quotes which I quite like: and and Campbell quoting Jung To be fair, I would take all three quotes together with a hefty dose of metaphor.
  25. In a way it may not be important, but it may help clarify the question. What if we ask, what did a later anonymous author mean (might have meant), when he put the words on paper and attributed them to Jesus?
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