Brianmhager

I know in other forums, I am a minority of one. I consider that it may be the same here. I do not see it as after anything. I know that God created all there is and I know, in my heart, that when he finally brings time to an end we go on in him. Some years back I thought I lost my faith. Now I know what was wrenched from my grasp was all my petty little personal beliefs I picked up along the way in church and from family members and friends. They were my toys. God "broke" them; that is, he took them away because they came between me and him. He wanted me to have a vital, living, breathing relationship with him I found in prayer and return to all the time. That relationship, I think, will continue beyond the grave for me. The biggest single question in my mind is, will I experience my relationship with God as Heaven or Hell in what is to come? Ultimately, it depends on what I make of it.

There is a "strain" of Christianity that would say that all that is necessary to have "salvation" is the accept Jesus as one's Lord and Savior. Is it that simple? I have listened to these folks over the years and their "pitch" always begins with a Litany of Proof Texts strung together from the Jewish Testament and the Christian scripture to show me where I have gone wrong. Their claim is that by doing this deed they urge on me, I will “go right.” Really? Could it be more simple than that? The title of this topic: "I Tell You, This Man Went To His Home Justified..." Refers back to Jesus' parable about the Pharisee and the Tax Collector. He tells his audience that it was the Tax Collector's cry of unworthiness and request for Mercy. According to the Law, the man knew he was a sinner. What was it about the prayer of this unclean soul that Jesus remarked about his "Justification?" In the sermon on the mount, it seems to me, that Jesus provides the answer. "Blessed are the poor in Spirit, their's is the Kingdom of God." Righteousness - or Justification - is not a direct consequence of something we do. So the formulaic approach to "Being Born Again" or being "Saved" does not CAUSE the desired result. Like the first three Steps of the 12 Step program(s), the Tax Collector (in his prayer) states, "1) I can't, 2) He can, 3) I want Him to do it!" I know for myself, right now, that I am a sinner. I have been a sinner all of my life. I will continue to be a sinner until the moment of my death. Why? I am a limited and finite human being. I do not possess "divine omniscience." I only know one thing. My "salve-ation" comes from what God does in and through me. It is His action; His unconditional Love which "heals" my fatal flaw and fills me up so I am whole. The idea of Justification or Righteousness reflects that basic truth to me. It is also a distilled version of the Gift of Faith I received when I was finally willing to accept what He wanted to give me; what He has always wanted to give me, all of us. That is my understanding of why the Tax Collector went home Justified. Brian

I saw his portrayal as the epitome of the tax collector's cry of unworthiness. Quite simply, like all of us he is a sinner and has experienced the depth of his sin. In the face of Unconditional Love we will eventually all feel our wretchedness. Yet Jesus does not condemn or judge us, He does not tell us how bad or evil we are He shines the blinding light of His acceptance into the hole in our hearts and makes us "whole." Alas the Pharisees of our world - past and present - are so focused on avoiding sin or balancing the scales they fail to notice the absolutely unbelievable Love and Grace God, through His Son's Resurrection - showers upon the world. I do not say this to judge or condemn; they judge and condemn themselves by the judgement they too often pass on others. Remember the words of the Pharisee as he prayed, "I thank you Lord that I am not like other men ... or like that tax collector." I can only imagine how much such a soul succeeds in walling God out of their lives, because He does not look or act like the God they have already fashioned in that hole in their souls. It is like the statue King Nebuchadnezzar sees in his dream. In time, the statue or idol we all create for ourselves will be struck down. I recall that when that happened to me, I thought I lost my faith. It turned out that it wasn't my faith I lost, but the golden calf I fashioned out of my own beliefs. I went from being a Pharisee to feeling the agony of the tax collector (or the bad lieutenant). Brian

Pardon my ignorance, but my understanding of Christianity is that Jesus and the Father are One?

How can Heaven be a place? Place suggests finite physicallity. My understanding of what may come after this is that it is eternal - without end or limitation of any kind. Peace, Brian

I would like to recommend a wonderful book to all of you. It's called, "CRISIS" by Mitchell Gold. It's an anthology of various individual's Coming Out Experiences, most in the context of their faith life and some accounts by a couple of parents - at least one who tells the story of her daughter who felt compelled to commit suicide because she felt her daughter was wrong; much like the "Prayers For Bobby." There is also a witness by a gentleman who is, or was, an evangelical and it's billed as "An Evangelical Applogizes." The book, I believe, was inspired by the rash of young gay men committing suicide in the last several years. You all might find it highly inspirational and educational. I know I did. Brian

So, Hornet, what is your view of Heaven, in addition to Hell, & Free Choice (or Free Will)? Brian

Have you read Bishop Spong's book, "Rescuing the Bible from Fundamentalism"? He has an interesting take on this. Someone appearantly suggested to him that Paul may have been repressing same sex attraction. At first, I thought that was a bit "stretched." But Spong went on to point out similarities between what Paul wrote in many of his letters and well known individuals today who are rabidly homosphobic, like Ted Haggerd, who were later caught up in a gay sex scandal. I am not totally convinced, but it was enough of a crumb trail to open my mind to that possibility. Peace, Brian

What is key for me about the rejection is the idea pushed by many today who portray a particular image or conept of God as the "Condemning Judge." They run around telling people that "they'd better be careful or God will send them to Hell!" Really? Is God really doing the judgment or are they? And if their veiw of God is "not entirely" correct (I use that term loosely), does it resemble them and if their view of God does resemble their beliefs, preferences, values, would they recognize the God of Love when they finally stand before Him/Her/It? I don't think God particularly cares. Unconditional Love doesn't keep track of wrongs or rights, it only seeks to give itself away. However, if someone cannot accept Unconditional Love - especially for those they consider WRONG - and rather cling to their own "self image, self-created-image" of God would they find it in themselves to then embrace God and the people they spent their lives condemning? I can't really answer that. I only consider that I try to allow God to show me who S/He is in and through the lives of the most wounded, broken, and marginalized of our society. Again, I won't lay the idea of what a person's disposition in the afterlife will be at the feet of God. I consider it a "personal choice." Just as I believe that the methaphor of Adam and Eve (I don't consider it a literal history) was that in the context of the story, they turned their backs on God and Left the Garden. Why? I think it has to do with the choice of Trees they ate from. These fictional characters demonstrate how we can choose either to "know it all," or accept Life - whatever that may be. Does that help you understand my view any more? Peace, Brian

The greek word "Apocalypse" means literally, "to pull aside the veil." In this life, we live by faith, not by sight. The longer I live, the more I am aware of daily acceptance or rejection of God's coming to me in each present moment. Yet, what I accept or reject here is without the benefit of standing before God as s/he is. When I finally die and enter into the Lord's presence I will see, fully, what it is I have rejected or accepted in this life. My hunch, and I am really only speculating here, is that if I fully rejected the God of my understanding here, I will see in totality, the subject of what I rejected. I don't know, but my thoughts are that it will be more difficult to embrace the truth of God then. All of this, for me, was a way to reconcile what I was taught since my childhood with the growing awareness of who God really is as I grew and matured in faith. Could I be totally wrong about all of this? Perhaps. Yet, it is the understanding that I possess today. How that may change tomorrow? I haven't got a clue. As an example, I have left the Catholic Church because the direction of that institution no longer paralleled my faith trajectory, but I know I must remain open to someday going back. Why? How? That is something only God can answer for me. Much of what I believe today is the result of God's light illuminating my path and inviting me to Love more deeply. S/he continues to apply a healing salve to my wounded soul. Therefore I am being saved/salved. It doesn't give me a truth or philosphy that is better than anyone else's. I simply share what I see on my journey and offer it because as a human person I am seeking to find my own way; my own voice in this world. Peace, Brian

I could not agree with you more Jenell! I arrived at my current view after a very difficult struggle to overcome my former "Roman Catholic" exclusive salvation thinking. I could never wrap my mind around the notion that only Catholics were going to be saved, because - according to the Church - the "fullness" of Grace resides in the Catholic Church. I sought to make a more inclusive view for myself in the idea of Heaven or Hell Freely Chosen by the acceptance or rejection of Love in one's life; not the "right" set of beliefs. I appologize if I was not clear about that. My brain can be my own worst enemy. I forget to include details that would make myself better understood. Much in the same way that people will often forget to include a word in something they write because they're thinking too fast for their fingers to keep up. Brennan Manning, the author of The Ragamuffin Gospel, helped me to finally accept the idea of a more inclusive view of "salvation." By "salvation" I am not refering to the more traditional definition of "being saved." I prefer the meaning of the root word in the term, "salve;" a healing ointment or balm. Just as my personal definition of the word "sin" now refers to a "lack" of God's presence in my heart when I fail to Love and accept those God calls upon me to embrace. I don't believe God wants me to be a doormat, but rather, am I willing to be a conduit for His/Her Love and Grace to those I perceive to be in need. So Heaven or Hell - for me - has become the inevitable outcome of my willingness to genuinely Love (and not hate) the people I meet. Sometimes real Love has to be tough - That is where I tend to fail most often. When I think of my Final Destination, I am aware that it is available to everyone, because everyone is capable of Love and receivintg God's Grace - again, not in the traditional definitions of those words or ideas, but a universal application that excludes no one and allows for the individual religious practices of the entire human race. I don't have to be exclusive in my faith for it to be efficacious for me. I hope I've made more sense. If you require any further explanation or qualifcation from me don't hesitate to ask. Peace, Brian

Thank you Joseph. I do second that. However, I also know it will take as long as it takes. The work place normally only allows three days for such matters. That may be good or bad in terms of preventing someone from just sitting at home depressed. But there is an unfortunate attitude that accompanies that on the part of people not touched by death. "Why are you still depressed?" As a nation, we tend to be far too removed from death and dying. We've sterilized the whole affair by the way most funeral homes "manage" it all. There are times when, depending on who dies and who the deceased is, that grieving may be significant or stoic. In particular I recall a woman who lost her husband at the Church that used to be my home parish. She was the church organist. She was also a member of a Charismatic prayer group. She was quite literally sobbing during the service and at one point felt so overwhelmed by the whole thing that she began to wail in "tongues." An older priest, an italian, who used to be a missionary got a horrified look on his face and another priest who was in attendance rushed over to try and silence her. I don't know if it were because they feared she might become histerical or what. But tha memory stayed with me and demonstrated the way in which Western Culture tends to stuff feelings and control emotions. In many ways, I still don't know what to think about that. My grieving for my dad, as you might see by the poem turned into an unexpressed anger, because even following his funeral no one bothered to talk to me or ask me how I was feeling. There seemed to be this assumption that I could never understand (at nine years old) what had happened. My mom and her brother spent a lot of time talking - before he had to fly back to Connecticut - and my brother just left and went somewhere, I never really knew where. I was left by myself, which became the overarching narrative of my life. Depending on how people deal with grieving younger family members it can set a tone for their rest of their lives. Even after all these years my brother has never spoken to me about that time and when our mother died, he went off to his side of the house and I went to mine. Happiness or Joy are some of the most important emotional highlights of life. They can be a source of bonding and spiritual growth. It has taken me the better part of my life to "thaw" out and get in touch with my feelings and my sense of who I am; which I found to be my true vocation in life. The sad part is that I don't know who my brother is. I don't know if it will be worth trying to share with him, because there are parts of my life I already know he can not accept. Too bad. He has no idea who I am either. Peace, Brian

I wanted to add one more thing to the thread on Suffering. 30 years after my father died, I was still experiencing some sigificant personal issues. I went back into Counseling for the third time and one session with my Therapist the undexpected popped out of my mouth. I basically told her that I had never grieved for my dad. When I was nine, my mom left me with a family friend while she and my brother went to my dad's wake and his funeral. 30 years later, it finally dawned on me that his death had remained an open account. I had never grieved for him. I had never let go of him. And there was the issue of my anger at him for dying and leving me alone which I still saw through nine year old eyes. For the next two years I worked on that. When I finally arrived in Miwaukee to begin my second try at Seminary I sought out a resident Therapist and began working with him on that. By the time I arrived back in Palm Beach County in time to be with my mom before she died, the seeds of a poem took shape that would become my ticket for "Closure." A Ticket I finally cashed in almost 14 years later when I wrote the following poem. Here it is: MY FATHER'S GONE My father's gone ... he died. He's dead! Yet, no one helped me calm the dread I felt with every passing day at home, in school and even play. No wake or grave did I attend; no closure meant: "There was no end." So as a shroud of sadness fell my life became a living hell of constant pain; a rising flood that chilled and froze my very blood. My body grew, but still a boy in temperament, no childhood joy could lift my eyes above the clouds. In time, I learned to act for crowds that garnered accolades of praise yet, told me nothing of the ways of how I should become a man; my mother's son - my father's clan. Teachers... priests... nobody knew the real reason I was blue and so depressed. I could not speak about a world I saw as bleak. I dared not dream that I could thrive within a soul still-born alive. A counselor I had paid to hear me talk about my greater fear stumbled on the unseen pain I carried every year in vain, until right then. What utter shock that after 30 years o'clock the big hand came around at last. With tools I learned, I now could cast my story in a different light. Nobody understands the blight of silence stealing time to mourn, when souls we love, from us are torn. The truth unearthed, prepared me for what shook me at my very core the year my mother finally died. At 39, this rushing tide around me surged. I kept my head and made my grief my daily bread. Twelve years have passed since '96 when I stared down the River Styx. It's not too late to seek to share by writing what is good and rare about a twisting, rough hewn path through unshed tears and silenced wrath! January 10, 2009

"Yeah. The Devil made me do it!!!" "MMMM.... Could it be Sa - tan?" Brian

Hey Pete, There already is one! It used to be called the way, of course now it is called Christianity!!!! Brian