Raven

Brian, Thank you for sharing your personal story with us. I'm sorry to hear that your experience with your father's passing caused you so much pain later on. I'm fortunate that I work from home and (mostly) make my own schedule, so I can be at the hospital pretty much whenever. It's not so much for my grandmother's sake, as she is asleep a lot of the time and doesn't know who I am most of the time she's awake. However, my mom is at the hospital full-time every day, so I feel it's important to keep her company and talk about other things - it's easy to get tunnel-vision, especially with grief. Western culture, I think as a nod to some of the British origins, usually has a "stiff upper lip" approach to grief - even stress or sadness. Good or bad, I don't know. Sometimes I think it's bad, because holding it in can be so harmful. However, it's also taught me how to hold it together when I need to, so that's maybe a good thing. Joseph, I really appreciate your kind words and thoughts. Thank you so much. I am working to stop torturing myself with "why" and let go of that part. It's not in my nature, but I'm working on it. I appreciate the support. *** I stopped by the church yesterday while out for a walk. It was the first time I'd been there in almost exactly 3 years - the last time was Easter Sunday three years ago. I sat in the sanctuary for a while (after getting let in by the secretary - how sad that a sanctuary must be locked to prevent theft and destruction!) and allowed myself to just be quiet, pray, think, cry, be still. I didn't leave with any answers, really, but I did leave with a feeling of peace and calmness. Afterward, I went to the hospital, and was glad to find that with the calmness inside me, I was able to be a good support for my mother and handle the situation. I am not going to the hospital today as my schedule does not allow for it, but I will be going back tomorrow.

Don't discount the value of intent. Regards of what Yoda might have said, trying IS important and it DOES count for something. Sometimes we try to do great things, or be great people, or live up to the ideal - we don't always make it. But making the effort, trying your hardest, counts for a lot I think. Loving your enemy, for example, is difficult at the best of times. But trying to distance yourself from the negative feelings, trying to forgive that person if they have done something to you, trying to find *something* about that person that is good - those are noble efforts. I find it hard to believe that God would judge so harshly that those who fail are doomed. If that's the case, we're all doomed - and I don't believe that to be true.

There are some excellent points here. I have to wonder if people's seeminly renewed interest in religion has to do with what's happening in the world? A professor told me once that the birth of a child, severe illness, or fear are common causes of increase in religious interest, or at least curiosity. I'm not saying that it's true, but it's certainly interesting. I can attest to it in my own self, anyway. Is it possible that with the world as it is right now, people are less comfortable assuming there is nothing more than this? My friends I used to joke about how religious people got on the Y&R as soon as someone was on their deathbed. The rest of the time, life as usual! The problem with both fundamentalists and rabid athiests/antitheists is that they are typically a minority but are loudest, wildest, and make for better newsclips. People who take the middle path, whatever their religion or non-religion, don't make the evening news. Everyone gets lumped in together, which isn't fair or accurate. Perhaps, when talking to atheists/anti-theists, the focus ought to be less on "religion" and more on "faith." Religion is man-made, and is flawed. Faith is spiritually-made, too individual to be considered "flawed." The very word "religion" can make people defensive and angry. "Faith" is fluid, and personal.

Your success is inspiring, Jonny. (Maybe there is hope for the rest of us! ) I think it's great that you have taken a stand for yourself and put it all out there. It must be a very relieving feeling.

Norm, I couldn't agree more. It is important for the church (every church, any church, all the churches) to evolve in ways that make people feel part of the community and involved. My church (United Church) has a small population, and most of the regular attendees are elderly. Not to be macabre, but as they pass away, our chuch is experiencing a real dip in population. It's unfortunate. However, the United Church (generally) is one of the more forward-thinking churches, or at least that has been my experience with my own church and the other United Churches we used to do things with. Our church has a female minister, for example, and gay and lesbian people are welcome there too. I have no idea if they have been performing same-sex marriages (I've been absent for quite a while) but if not, it would genuinely surprise me. Christianity as a whole (the mighty umbrella) has a pretty misogynist history. It doesn't mean it has to keep going that way into the future. I would like to see more churches move to accept women as equal parts of the church community.

Hi everyone, Thank you for your kind words and your insights. I'm sorry I didn't pop back in sooner - "exhausted" doesn't begin to cover it. During this difficult time, however, it is good to feel part of a community that cares. This is a nice place. Things at the hospital continue to be confusing and draining. It still looks like she won't be getting any better, but they're unsure of a lot of other things. It's especially difficult because my grandmother has advanced stage alzheimers, so she can't even tell them where the pain is, how bad it is, what anything feels like, or anything. I guess, in reference to my original post, part of me is angry because our family has already suffered through several years of watching my grandmother disappear with this disease - for me, it's a moment of, "Haven't we all been through enough already?" Alzheimer's is a terrible disease, and I wouldn't wish it on anyone - or their family, since it's very difficult to watch, helpless. I have prayed for her comfort. I have prayed for a swift end, if there is to be an end. I have prayed for a recovery, though there is no recovery from alzheimers - not yet, anyway. (I figured it couldn't hurt.) I have prayed for my family to stay strong, and for the doctors and nurses to do their best and treat her gently. I'm not sure what else to do at this point. I have found comfort in prayer, but I hate feeling like there's nothing else I can do. I remember, when each of my other grandparents passed away, there was always someone telling me that they were in a better place, that God is mysterious and it's not for us to question, that there is no more suffering, etc. If death brings an end to suffering, then it's a good thing - in the sense that it could ever be a good thing, if you catch my meaning. Sometimes it seems so meaningless though. For someone to have an illness like alzheimer's to begin with is terrible (and scares me to death for my own old age) but to then compound it with drawn-out discomfort and pain just seems unkind. I believe it is all part of God, but I can't figure out what part, exactly. Life can be very confusing.

Norm, Thanks for sharing that. I'm here with tears in my eyes. What a beautiful story, and a great explanation of another way to see the Bible's teachable moments.

It's easy to believe in a kind, loving, fair-handed God when everything is going well. However, how do you reconcile the suffering of good people? It's an age-old question, but what kind of God allows good people to suffer needlessly? My grandmother is on her deathbed, and it appears it may be a bit of a drawn-out situation. It seems so heartless to me to have her suffer (and everyone else suffer, watching her) instead of just letting her go to sleep and not wake up again. My grandmother has had her faults (haven't we all?) but she's a good person. Why would God make her suffer through something unpleasant and die, instead of just taking her peacefully? I know there really isn't an answer to the question...but I'm assuming most here have been through this same situation with a loved one. How do you handle it and not lose your faith? Also - is it wrong to pray for it to just be over? It feels like praying for her death, though of course I don't want that to happen. But there is zero chance of her ever returning to who she was, and she is in pain and suffering a lot. Praying for her to live seems cruel, when she won't live a good life.

I think anger and love go together. It's so much easier to be angry at someone you love, than a stranger, because we are emotionally invested in them and what they do or don't do. Their little comments hurt more because there is (or should be) love between you, so incidents leave more marks. Anger can also come from a place of love. I get angry when I see people mistreating other people, out of a love for humankind. I get angry when my brother doesn't apply himself, because out of love for him I want to succeed and do well for himself and for his family. Anger can spur us to loving action. I think a lot of community and social services (paid or volunteer) come out of a place of anger - the hyperemotional question of "WHY?!" when we see starving people on the streets, or kids being beaten at home. Is anger or love more powerful? I don't know. I'd like to say love, of course, but anger has a fire to it all to itself, that can be hard to contain. The Bible of course tells us, "Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil, but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always preserves. Love never fails." (1 Corinthians 13:4 - 13:8) NIV. I have always loved this quote, and in truth, when I consider love (in all its forms) it is what I aim for. Unfortunately, it's not always realistic. We can love someone and be rude, or easily-angered. We're human beings. I do feel it is something to strive for.

Haha Yvonne, your positive nature is a great example for the rest of us! We had a crazy wind storm here a couple of days ago, but no rain. We could really use some! The sun is shining today and there is a gentle breeze. If I didn't have so much housework to do (the purge continues) I would get outside and pull up those dandelions!

It sounds like Mother Nature knows what she's doing!

Trees give me hope - especially after a long winter. I always imagine their bony hands reaching up to the heavens.

What are you glad about today? Today, I am glad about tea. I overate/overdrank at a dinner party last night, and to say my stomach is angry is an understatement. I have an awesome "digestive tea" that is keeping me from laying down in agony and defeat. Really - sometimes it's the little things that matter the most.

So far, so good. Ok, so I'm only three days in (I do my reading at night, as it helps quiet my brain) but still, so far so good. I have to admit, reading about the generations has been tedious, but what a great exercise in patience! At first I wanted to skip over those parts, but I made myself do it, and I was glad for it after. It is good to work toward something. Yes, the generations are detailed and long (900-year lifespans? Yikes!) but they must be in there for a reason...to force me to sit still, if nothing else.

I don't think emotions can be positive or negative by themselves. What you do with an emotion can be positive or negative though, or perhaps where it comes from can be positive or negative. This week I have tried to approach this job situation with more optimism and keep my frustrations under control. Right now (this moment, actually) I'm facing a situation that is very disappointing. But you know what? It's my job, not my life. My students are adults, not little kids. We all make our own choices. And as my father likes to say, "Some people need to pee on their own fence."

^ ^ Excellent point, John.

Thanks, Pete and Steve, for your ideas. *Something* is evolving - me, God, the world around us all...I'm not sure yet. Something is different. I guess part of my journey is to figure it out.

Is it me, or is there something culty about the way that's been written?

No pain, no gain?

Jenell, You're right - in the teaching field, it's easy to get focused on the end result. I can't speak for everyone, but most teachers I know (myself included) got into their field out of a genuine desire to help people, teach them something. For me, working with newcomers makes me feel like I'm really contributing to the community, and helping the students navigate their new lives. Maybe it's selfish, but I get a good feeling from it. When things go askew, it can be so frustrating. My friend gave me a bookmark a few years ago. It's got a cartoon man (kind of like Ziggy) in the midst of a temper tantrum. The caption says, "Lord, give me patience - RIGHT NOW!" Haha it was a joke, but it's still true. Patience can be be so hard to find when you need it most. When you don't really need it, it's no problem. Keeping your frustrations limited to the actual people involved is so important. Taking things out on other people isn't fair - but again, it's a human condition I guess.

These policies just make it harder and harder on women. Where is the legislation making it harder for men to walk away after impregnating a woman? Where is the legislation requiring these men to step up and be parents, instead of leaving these women on their own? It makes me very sad. ###### banks aside, women don't get pregnant by themselves. But so often, they're the ones who end up raising the kids by themselves. Reduce access to birth control (but not condoms). Reduce access to abortions (but don't force men to participate in the child-raising or provide more support for single mothers). Cut funding to childcare programs (but don't help women stay at home with their children.) Deny access to correct safe-sex information (but be irritated when young girls get pregnant). The assault on women never ends. Those who would take stride to block access to abortions should be lined up to adopt these babies once their born. It doesn't happen that way though. Protect the fetus, but leave the child (and parent/s) to struggle once s/he is born.

Jenell, You raise a great point. It's important to know whether you are working toward something bigger than yourself, or causing yourself greater pain. I had a job where I was causing myself pain (ironically, an environment full of people who identified as "Christian.") and the day I left was one of the greatest days ever. I love the job I have now, but like all jobs, it brings a level of stress that sometimes eats at me. I in turn sometimes have trouble letting go of that stress, and not merging it with "student-created stress" and creating a larger problem. This job has taught me a lot, and I hope to have it for a while more. Steve, Thanks for your points. Any job that works directly with people has its stress, that's for sure. I appreciate your reminder - their problem, not mine. And yes, it's easy to love working with the fun people. When people grind your gears and stomp on your last nerve, it's hard to remember what you're working for, and to do it with optimism. You're right though - in the right job, it's worth it.

Yvonne, Thanks for restating the question. I think I get what you're asking now! Currently I don't have a "spiritual director." I'm not currently attending a church (though I am still a member) and aside from this forum and the one friend I mentioned on the other thread, so really I'm on my own. I think right now I'm following my own path, in whatever direction my heart feels stirred. Perhaps God is my spiritual director?!

I would like to add a couple of points here, if I may.... Sadomaschism is not a sexual orientation, but simply a type of sexual behaviour. It is more than possible that people into S&M, bondage, role-play, etc are sitting beside you in church already. As long as people are consenting, what kind of sex they have is their business, IMO. Would it change your mind about the people you know if you knew about their particular, personal kinks? Would you want to be judged by yours? Rape is also not a sexual orientation. Rape is not about sex, but about control, power, and denigration. If you like your sex (as it was phrased above) through the force of a knife to someone's throat against their will, that's not a sexual orientation, but a whole different issue. Everything I've heard/read about rape indicates that the people who commit these kinds of crimes are not typically able to be rehabilitated, so there isn't much of an argument for a "reformed" rapist. Do I think they should be included from the church community? If there is a chance that they might harm a member of the community, than the community has a responsibility to look after itself. Of course, that's not to say that you might not be surprised by someone's behaviour (just because they haven't raped before, doesn't mean they might not tomorrow) but knowing what we know about sex crimes, it's wise to be cautious. I believe that prison study/worship programs are a positive idea, though. Homosexuality is not related to these other issues, and considering homosexuality in the same conversation as child rape gives life to a dangerous, unsubstantiated slippery slope. Are some homosexuals child molesters? Yes - but so are some heterosexuals. Again, rape is not about sex.

There are some good views on this thread. I don't really talk about faith/belief/religion with anyone in my life. I have one friend from university I still talk to about it now and then, but she is on the fundy end of things and sometimes I find it difficult to bear her opinions - though I respect her right to her faith and how it manifests for her. As for everyone else, not really. My partner is a self-labelled "failed Catholic" who is a person of faith as it is, but doesn't really have a lot of interest in pursuing it further at this point - though we have talked about going to church here and there. My brother claims to be an atheist (though I have my doubts on that one) and my parents are spiritual/Christian people, but quiet about it. Mostly, I don't feel that religion/faith is appropriate for social conversations. Like politics, it's a great way to get people stirred up, angry, and super-emotional. There are some things I just would rather leave off the table, though about most things I'm a pretty open person. I believe that spirituality is more of a personal thing, though there is something to be said for community as well.