Raven

While I think that churches in general should just move on and start opening their doors to LGBT community members, realisiticallyl I know that isn't going to happen. If an individual church (or I guess a branch) wants to decide no, they won't allow same-sex marriages performed in their building(s), then I suppose that's their right to do so. However, marriage does not just exist inside the church institution, and therefore the church groups should not be able to prevent the government from legally sanctioning same-sex marriage. Besides, if God is everywhere all the time (and I believe He is) then if a couple is married in a church, a park, or a Wal-Mart McDonald's, He is still there and part of it. My bf and I believe in God, but since we are "unequally yoked" as a Catholic and a Protestant, we'll likely avoid getting married in a church and opt for something else anyway. God will still be there.

Dutch, You raise some good points. Yesterday I used my energy on more beneficial activities, instead of dwelling too much on things that are simply currently out of my control. It was a good way to re-centre, and also not focus on things that make me feel negative. There's always *something* you can do, even if it's not exactly your heart's desire at that moment. Thanks for posting the song, as well - it was beautiful.

Personally, I see nothing wrong with someone selling their body if they want to. Force is not right, but if someone (male or female, doesn't matter) enters into a business arrangement of their own free will, then what does it matter? Either your body belongs to you, or it doesn't. If it does, then it's yours to sell if you want. If it doesn't, then you can't really "consent" to anything, including getting piercings/tattoos, having sex, or even being examined by a doctor. Does prostitution degrade women? Some prostitution does, probably, but I wouldn't say all. There are some savvy business women out there who are working for themselves (no pimps/madams), safely, and raking it in. Isn't that their choice? And yes, there are also women who are simply not in a position to find other types of work - women have worked the streets to feed their kids and put a roof over their family's head since the beginning of time. It's unfortunate, but in a society that still often treats women like second-class citizens, it isn't surprising and again, I don't see how we can fault the women here. I suppose it's rather complicated. As for people's love (and trust?) of markets - as long as there are greedy people, the markets will come first. The desire to make money, even on a long-shot, even after the bank crisis, will still have control over many people. It's sad, but it's the way it is. Many people are suffering world over because of the unbridled greediness of a few.

Paul, You're right - refocusing is a big help! I spent yesterday trying to keep myself busy and not be tormented by my own thoughts, and it did help a bit. There are always other things to focus on. It's true, too - is everyone looking through someone else's window? Maybe. My life is great, and I know I shouldn't really complain about anything. I guess just once in a while I start to feel like there are things I'm missing out on, or waiting too long for. It's hard, but I guess that's just life. Learning to deal with it is the real lesson. George, The funk is a bit better today, thank you. I've spent a lot of time in prayer since yesterday morning, and it's helped me come to a peaceful point. I've had a couple of good conversations with friends, too, so that's been helpful. I wish I was better at letting go of things that aren't necessarily (or entirely) in my control, but it doesn't seem to be in my personality. That's where I struggle. Instead, I'm focusing now on experiencing joy in my life as it is, and being grateful. It's a better way to spend the day. Thanks you guys - a great example of why this place is so great!

Thanks, Yvonne. I'm not much of a chanter, but I have been praying, and thinking a lot - though thinking too much is probably what got me into this mess to begin with. It's hard to look around at other people and see that they have what you want. Yes, I sound like a spoiled brat, but it's an honest statement. *sigh* this miserable rain isn't helping, either. I know I just need to let go and let things unfold as they will, but sometimes it's hard not to get caught up in it all. I appreciate your good thoughts, as always, my friend.

Zebra ... in today's blah mood, I feel like that's about stretch marks. Ugh.

I am feeling utterly despondent this morning. Actually, it's a carry-over from last night. In any case, I'm definitely in a funk this morning. I'm at a point in my life where I want something (more like a couple of somethings) to happen and I'm just not doing well at being patient, waiting - I'm finding myself very frustrated, worried, depressed.... I'm not sure why I'm even posting this here, except that you lovely folks have become like a family to me, and I'm hoping someone out there today has some words of wisdom or kindness to help me out. There is so much good in my life, that I feel like a terrible person for even feeling unhappy - but I do, so there it is. Help!

Welcome, Bea! Glad to have you here.

Conservative? I know there's been a lot of back-and-forth lately on a few topics, but I haven't really seen anything that stands out as "Think ____ or you're wrong." I too would like to know what you mean by "conservative." Personally I've found this place to be quite open-minded. There have been times where I've been irritated by things other people have said, but the fact is this is a place where debates/disagreements are welcome, as long as they are respectful and not rude. I'm sorry to hear that you're having a different experience.

One thing I would like to add though in an opposite sort of way - I do notice that the more the "general society" moves in one direction, the "fringe society" seems to move in the other. As the general world (particularly in North America) becomes more open to LGBT community members, gay marriage, gay families, etc, those vehemently opposed seem to become more vicious and determined to be the complete opposite. I feel like the ultra-conservative, right wing, so-called "Christian Right" are getting more out of hand all the time, as the rest of the world starts to move on. Anyone see the clip over the weekend of the little toddler singing a homophobic song in church? I just about threw up. This is the one aspect of society that I have to say seems to be moving backward instead of forward - and making *all* self-identified Christians look bad in the process.

George, You make an excellent point. It's often much harder to hate someone once you've gotten to know them personally. When we note people as "different" in our minds/societies, it enables us to create an Other, a sort of cultural boogeymonster. It's easy to be afraid, uncomfortable, filled with hate, when the object of those feelings is something or someone you aren't familiar with. When someone you know and like as a human being becomes someone you know as a member of the LBGT community, it makes it harder (I hope) to hang on to those old stereotypes and ideas.

The fact that LGBT issues are part of common, everyday discourse seems to point toward progress. Things are not perfect, and there is still a lot of hate out there - the civil rights movement of MLK didn't wipe out racism, either; but things moved forward, improved, and became more equal than they were. Humans are still evolving, and hopefully will never stop. I don't know if we'll live to see the day that hatred (in all forms, not just toward the LGBT community) is eradicated, but if people give up now, our future generations won't, either.

Thank you, Dutch. I have been enjoying reading everyone's ideas and opinions. This thread was an excellent idea!

Has anyone spent any time reading The Christian Left blog? I've been reading it the last couple of days, and though some parts of it seem a little "fanatical" to me, it also makes some good points. www.thechristianleftblog.org

Thank you, George.

"God answers every prayer; sometimes the answer is 'No.'" Someone told me that once when I was much younger, and it has stuck with me. You can ask anything you want of God, if you choose to, but it doesn't mean you'll get it. For me, I believe that things work out in the universe the way they're meant to, though sometimes it can be painful and awful. I know that sounds weird, and I don't mean to offend anyone. I don't know why some people are saved from death and some are not. I don't know why some evil people live to be 100 and innocent babies die - I don't have the answer to that. I find some comfort, naive as it may seem, in knowing that some things are simply beyond our knowing. We judge situations based on our own concept of them. Fair and unfair are graded against what we know of life. What we know of life is quite small, considering how big everything else is. In the large scheme of things, larger than is beyond human understanding, there is, I hope, a purpose for things we can't understand. Using the phrase "God's plan" is a bit fundy for my taste, but that's the closest way I can think to explain it. It's not much, but it gives me comfort. I will be 30 this year. For literally half my life now, I have suffered, daily, with a chronic illness. Treatable but not curable, destined to likely worsen with age, and it has made my life difficult beyond explanation. Why? I'm not a bad person. Ok, I'm not a perfect person either, but why would God afflict me and not someone else? It hardly seems fair. I have moments of exasperation. God and I have talked many times about this - mostly me being angry, or sad, or bitter that I have missed out on some life moments because of this illness. But you know, if I'm being totally honest here, I've learned things about myself I wouldn't have otherwise. Unlike people who are never sick, I know what I'm made of. I know what I can handle. I'm stronger now that I was in the beginning, because of everything I've been through. I bear scars, physical and emotional ones, and they are a roadmap of my journey. And I have to believe, with every piece of myself, that this is part of a larger plan that I cannot fathom. Do I wish to be free of this disease? Of course I do - but I asked God, and he said, "No." I may not know the reason until the moment of my death, but I feel certain there is one. (Again, that was not intended to hurt anyone or ignore the pains they have been through - my apologies if anyone is offended by anything I wrote.)

Oh that's it - I really should stop posting on here until I've fully woken up. My apologies Paul - my fingers aren't morning people. To reiterate, there was nothing offensive (to me at least) in any of your posts. I always enjoy engaging with you and your ideas. Now, for some caffeine...

I pray daily - sometimes multiple times in the day, if need be. Not necessarily long, drawn-out formal prayers, but simply ideas, fears, concerns, etc. I pray for others if I feel the need to, and also if they ask me to. I put things in God's hands that I cannot handle on my own, or feel I need some direction or strength, or guidance. I try to do Bible study every day, though lately it's been difficult to find the time to really sit and focus. Hopefully this craziness will be short-lived. Like gaychristian27, I also listen to praise and worship music. For some reason, the worship music that resonates with me the most is the more fundamentalist type - there's something very energizing and uplifting about it.

Thanks for posting that, Joseph! That's a much different version than the one I grew up with. There's something about a church organ that just makes everything a little ... funeral-y. This version was much lighter and quite nice.

Paul, I was particularly offended by you - sorry if it came across that way. And yes, there are windbags out there of all sorts. I do agree that there are some people who are possibly doing things (for example, praying in public) for reasons other than a truly spiritual connection. In those cases, I feel they are overstepping an etiquette (stop trying to convert people!) and should think twice. I have members of my family who do this, and it is not really appropriate. However, I see no harm in saying Grace in a restaurant, or praying publicly in a park or something, as long as it's done respectfully to both God and the other people around. I grew up in, and still live in, a wildly multicultural area. I have been exposed to people praying in many languages, in many fashions, in many locations, to many Gods/higher powers/etc for as long as I can remember. It honestly does not even blip my radar. When I hear/see people pray in public, I reflect for a second that it is nice to see people expressing their faith, and I move along. I see nothing offensive in that at all. When I am with people of other religions who pray out loud (at meal time, or at a particular prayer time) I will sit quietly, perhaps say my own prayer, and not make a fuss about it. Someone else (I forget who) made a suggestion that people should pray in their cars before they eat - that, to me, was a very offensive statement. People should not have to hide their faith just to put other people at ease. It smacks of "seperate but equal," and reminds of people who claim they're not homophobic as long as everything stays in the bedroom. We have the right to pray or not pray as we see fit, both politically (assuming no one here is in a country that says otherwise) and religiously/personally. To tell people to go pray outside, lest they offend your ears, is quite narrow. And yes, I second whomever said that there is a difference between praying loudly in the streets for attention, and praying in public in earnest connection. Some may pray in the streets to cause a scene and puff themselves up, but others may pray in the street because they feel moved in the moment and wish to respond to it. Let's not lump everyone in together.

Joseph, My aplogoes. Some of the other comments rubbed me the wrong way. When I see and interact with other people, I don't like to assume the worst parts of them - I wouldn't them to do it to me, either. Personally I would hate to live in a way that saw me view people that way - look at them praying, the show-offs! I prefer to think that most people are approaching God in a way that works for them, regardless of whether it works for me. It's important to remember that people who do things differently are not automatically bad or doing something wrong. I didn't get from a lot of comments that people remembered that.

Some likely pray that way because they're used to it. Some likely pray that way to be an example to others and convert. Some likely pray that way because they feel close to one another. Some likely pray that way because they are moved in the moment by the Spirit. What does it matter? In all honesty, I find some of these comments a little condescending. I understand that for some folks here, prayer/God etc are simply archaic, backwards, without meaning, but to assume that people who pray out loud do it to antagonize/show off/one-up is a bit hostile. For some, eating without giving thanks is not an option, even in public. Praying together as a family or group of friends can be a beautiful thing. They aren't hurting anyone. And considering the table manners a lot of people seem to lack these days, I can think of worse things to witness at a restaurant.

Paul, Yes, that's the song! I mostly remember the first verse, but I always liked it - and it fit perfectly with what I was experiencing this afternoon. Yvonne, You're welcome. I'm always happy to have something joyful to share. I hope you're having a great weekend! (And I believe I owe you an email lol now that I'm finished playing in the mud...)

Anyone know that hymn that starts, "I feel the winds of God today.."? I have forgotten the rest, unfortunately. Anyway, it popped into my head just now, as I have been working in the garden. Up to my elbows in dirt, smelling blossoms and fresh grass, a little green bug dancing on my arm - it is here, in this moment, that I feel the wind of God breeze through me. I feel the sun on my face and the air gust through the leaves, and it's such a gorgeously God-filled moment. What a beautiful day to be alive! What a wonderful moment to share in God's creations! I hope everyone is having a great day to.

Thanks, Joseph and Dutch. You guys are spectacular!