Eric333

Hi JAF. I have been in a very similar situation, and my best take on it in hindsight is that you be you (don't pretend to be someone you're not) and let them be them (don't try to convince them that you are right and they are all misunderstood....at least not in that forum), and if you cannot "tow the company line" of the churches belief statement in front of the youth (it is probably declared on their website) then you should probably leave instead of challenging them in front of the youth. That's my $0.02 anyway...

I would probably say that I don't think my belief system is "true"... and I might also add that any ultimate belief bystem is probably best referred to by it's acronym (BS).

Hi, we meet again (from Chrisitan Evolution) I've participated here for a few years and its a good group of folks and lots of good discussion.

Hi NDLXS, as you likely know, the Nicene creed was a response to Emperor Constantines inability to handle variation in the church (and his need for control). He wanted uniformity and agreement, so he sat a bunch of bishops down and told them to develop a creed. Who knows if they even all believed it. What I do know is that it was a bunch of human beings, like you and I with no special powers and a lot less evidence than we have today, carrying out an order for their Emperor. And it is something that has stuck. I don't recite it but if I did I would find my own meaning in it and ignore what I couldn't reconcile. We know that's what many Catholic priests do... Eric

Nyh, I think a good criteria for choosing a church is to steer clear or churches that think the Bible is literal, or those who follow Paul instead of Jesus.

Hi AnneInTX Those feelings are very natural, and they're built into the whole system. It is designed to bring doubt, guilt, and fear if questioned. I recall once reading Mark 9:42 (which I had read many times prior) but one time it hit me differently. It says "If anyone causes one of these little ones--those who believe in me--to stumble, it would be better for them if a large millstone were hung around their neck and they were thrown into the sea." I realized that I am one of those people who cause little ones to stumble. I ask tons of questions and cause fundamentalists to think about things they were blissful not to care about prior. But I feel like we're better to have humility (even if it is knowing nothing for sure) instead of forcing made up BS (thats Belief Systems not Bull Shi....:-) on everyone else that causes war, biases, and myopic contentions. Anyway, today I think that God (for whatever that may mean) would more likely be glad that we are seeking truth and not following mindlessly, while also helping people understand that he isnt that bearded wildman from the Old Testament (I think "he" must hate that rep). Maybe God really likes people like us who think deeply and seek truth at all costs? Maybe he's guiding us to break the mold? Now there's a thought ;-) Eric

Hi John, it can be a very exciting and liberating time, but also discouraging during the chasm when old belefs fall away and new comforts have yet to emerge. This is a good place to work through it. Welcome. Eric

Yes I LOL'd at that part too! And the part where Jerry mentions the joke about Raquel Welch and the Priest perks all up and wants to hear it :-)

You guys are hitting on the head with the fundy vs. Catholic stuff, I was raised in New York as a Catholic, and then moved to FL and went to protestant church and have totally seen both sides in action. I love your last line here... says it all!

Great story Norm. I think you are right on target with your views regarding Judiasm's evolution from a "religion" to a "tradition and way of life." As an aside, I love that Seinfeld episode where the Dentist converts to Judiasm for the jokes! Check it out here if you haven't seen it: When I was taking theology in college we often referred to Judiasm to bring more clarity to things, and it was very valuable. I love that you used the word Moshiac because it's interesting how many modern evangelicals dont even know what the word Yeshua means :-) I look forward to hearing more about your insights on this topic. Eric

Hi Kathy and Norm, you both make some excellent points. I have really enjoyed the quality of discussion on this forum! Personally, I think there are many of "us" out there who were raised and formed by Christian tradition, and we tuned out the bad stuff and focused on the good stuff, and it's simply baked into us and we still long for that community; but have "progressed" in our intellectual understandings which makes us unwelcome in most churches. I think what needs to happen to Christianity is what happened to Judiasm, where it got "watered down" (I can imagine an evangelical hating that I just said that). Eventually it IS going to end up being a mere tradition where people cherry pick the good stuff, use the buildings and ministries for good works, and fellowship for a good purpose ... and modern fundamentalism will be viewed akin to how we view Amish or something like that today. I think this generation is pushing things in that direction. For a title, I use "Evolved Christian" just for fun (and even have a blog called Christian Evolution to explore all of that), because I personally feel like I can best describe my path as having evolved over the years by keeping the good, shedding the bad, and continuing to look forward to strengthen and adapt. But for "real" titles that would be understood by other people, Progressive Christian is mostly full of Christian A-Theists (or those who are well on their way to being Christian (by tradition) A-theists (by understanding) so likely the best label out there right now.

Amy, these are some excellent thoughts you've shared, I think they're spot on, and I can very much relate to going to church for various reasons but hoping that nobody ever asks me what I thought of the sermon! :-)

David, thanks for the response, and sorry for the slow response in return. I like the way you think!

Hi Bill, great to "meet" you and thanks for your thoughts on this thread (and sorry for the slow response, I didnt realize there were any new posts on this thread). I also was last most involved at a large UMC church and they were wanting me to preach and lead ministries etc and finally I talked to the pastor with the goal to have a discussion with him about Bible inerrancy and I quickly realized there was no interest by him in anyone who wasn't gong to march to the party line, so I had to leave. Pretty unfortunate because there were a lot of folks there who I really liked, and there was some good work I was able to do there with mission / outreach, and many don't even know why I left.... Nice to know theres others of like mind out there.

Bob, thank you for your response on the topic. Nice to meet someone else of pretty like mind! Eric