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Yvonne last won the day on January 8 2018

Yvonne had the most liked content!

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About Yvonne

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    Experienced Member
  • Birthday September 28

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    Iowa USA
  • Interests
    reading, animals, sociology, psychology, spirituality, writing, journaling, family
  1. First of all, I'm not talking about confronting every conservative and every conversation - I'm talking picking the "battles" as it were. Joseph, I can't help but notice that conservations (both political and religious) are extremely vocal about absolutely everything. And, like my dad always said "the squeaky wheel gets the oil". I feel, in certain personal situations, that in order to be true to who I am and my own spirituality it is vital that I speak up. I think too many times we (liberals, progressive, etc) tend to not speak up. I had been searching the Web for anything and everything to affirm what i was thinking as I started to grow into a progressive. I never heard of the term "progressive Christianity" until I stumbled across the tcpc page by accident one day. I can see by other comments that I am alone in how i feel. But I cannot help but think of how Jesus didn't let people shut his mouth. Yes, we are to live like Jesus lived, but I think we have to speak up. It seems to me, if the historical Jesus was gathering crowds around him to speak (even to tell parables), that must have really ticked off the authorities. (Well, according to the gospels, it made the authorities mad enough to crucify him.) Every time Jesus speaks in the gospels, he almost always calls authorities to account for themselves, implicity or explicity. Lastly, he doesn't let the "little guy" get away with much either. Look what he said to the Samaritan woman at the well, or Peter, "get behind me Satan". Whether we take these accounts as "factual" or truth, we tend to think of Jesus as being all sweetness and light, but let's face it, Jesus WAS a subversive. He had a thing or two to say to even those closest to him. It seems to me we (progressives) need to be more vocal, more obvious, more, well, subversive. I know this will get many comments, picking apart each word or sentence but I don't know exactly how to express my thoughts in this - and I feel strongly about it (obviously). I really do not care if anyone else agrees with me. For me, this is about my own integrity and being true to my own beliefs.
  2. First of all Raven, your posts always make me chuckle a little - you have a way with words. Secondly, and I'm sorry if this appears to be off topic, but the turn-the-other-check with a smile attitude is great and commendable. However, for me, I think that this "shut and smile" and not letting something get to us is why liberals, especially religious liberals, get overlooked, outshouted, outvoted. If we don't stand up and SAY something, no matter how much we live like Christians ought to live, I think we're doing outselves a disservice. After all, Jesus didn't turn away with a smile on his face when the temple was turned into a market place with the priests taking advantage of the poor. No, the accounts tell us he drove the merchants out with a whip and overturned the money tables. Whether or not its factual, its true. Jesus was activity calling the conservatives out for their behavior. He even called one a "white-washed tomb", meaning he was clean and fresh on the outside but dead and rotting on the inside. Just something to consider.
  3. Oh yes, I have relatives like this - a whole LOT of relatives like this - not only are they border-line fundy's but they are rabid conservatives. Not only do I get preached it, I get badgered politically. I get plenty tired of it. Its horribly rude, not matter if one believes s/he is right. I finally told one person to stop talking politics and religion because we were never going to agree. The next time I saw him, he started in again - so I told him politiely if he wanted to have a dialogue, where we both get equal time and actually listen to one another, I would be happy to discuss it. But if he was going to shout at me and not even consider my POV he should just (and these were my exactly words) "shut up about it". Guess what? He did.
  4. Norm, You are correct, I didn't mean politics as you defined it. What I mean is (in the US anyway) the jockeying for position and power, the lies and half-truths, and the fact people like me cannot hope to understand all the garbage that muddies the water during election year. I do not like the current system of delegates and electoral votes. I do not like the way candidates hijack religion to appeal to a certain demographic. So in this sense, I think there needs to be a trifle bit more separation between "church and state". When we have become a country in which a Muslim can swear on the Koran when being sworn in, I'll feel a little better about it. And you were right about socialism, too. The earliest Christians were eglatarian, they shared everything and took care of one another. They didn't need tax breaks, they just did it. They were "in the empire" but not "of the empire" You know? I think Christians everywhere need to adopt that attitude. Yes, I live in the U.S., I have a certain amount of healthy patriotism; but, no I do not have to let the government tell me what to believe or how to act in moral and ethical situations calling for a high degree of compassion, empathy, and social responsibility.
  5. I'm a little iffy about the question of religion and/or politics. For me, personally, I utterly thoroughly completely (!!) dislike politics. I know I have to be informed enough to make an intelligent reasoned choice when it comes time to vote. Otherwise, I'm not so sure politics and religion make very good bedfollows. As far as churches having or not having tax-exempt status, I would ask, does that mean there should be no exemptions for nonprofits? If so, well and good; if not, how does nonprofit get defined? I think a lot of liberals would shout rather loudly if their pet projects were taxed. I don't mean any disrespect to anyone, and like I said, I've not strong opinions on it, but I don't think its as simple as churches should (or not) be taxed. i have to say I too think Jesus' message and the example of the earliest Christian lives links with socialism. (I just heard my entire conservative family and community gasp.)
  6. I would love to see something like this addressing liberal, progressive issues of faith. However, in my limited experience, progressives seem to take a much quiter approach. I don't really see a lot of outreach from religious liberals of any ilk (at least in the my corner of the U.S.) And, from the posts here, I think that holds true for many places in the U.S. I would dearly love to do something like this from a progressive POV, but I'm not too sure how successful it would be. Maybe I'm just cynical.
  7. I think these are excellent discussion pionts - could this start a new topic?
  8. Exactly, they cared for one another, acting the way Jesus taught them to act. In "The Underground Church", Robin Meyer accuses Constantine of hijacking the church, and claims Constantine's reign was the worst thing to happen to Christianity. I'm pretty sure I can agree with that. When Christianity went from being this tight-knit non-violent, egalitarian community to a state religion (more or less), and bishops obtained more and more power and wealth, and "right belief" was paramount, we lost something - a lot of somethings.
  9. Orthodoxy - right belief Orrthopraxy - right practice. I like it when people accuse me of being unorthodox. That means my Christianity isn't bound up in 2000 years of change from the original followers of Jesus. It means I'm open-minded and think for myself. I have to admit to being a little bit proud of that. On the other hand, orthopraxy (would i say I'm orthoprax?) seems to made sense. If I practiced what the early Christians practices, I would be for non-violence and practice it, I would be for radical inclusiveness and practice it, I would be egalitarian (or, I suppose, some people might call it socialism, but socialism has political connotations. When the early Christians did was put into practice what Jesus taught.) I think Christianity got hijacked early on. We went from being loving and non-violent to... well...right belief. What do you think?
  10. I have to agree 100% with Steve. Sacrifice as atonement just doesn't make sense to me. Like George, I too am a bit agnostic when it comes to Jesus' divinity and the whole resurrection thing - clearly something happened or we wouldn't be talking about it more than 2000 years later. I can't remember it it was Borg or Michael Morwood who said it, but I can think of Jesus as savior. Jesus saved the "masses" (that is, the poor and marginalized) by letting them know they were loved, that they mattered. I think this same message rings true today. Just my 2 cents worth.
  11. I believe that after death we retain some kind of awareness, anything else would (IMO) be complete annilation, Physicists claim that information can never be lost...so why can't we "exist" in a way that's a mystery? Paul, I think you said it very well indeed. Although I think God is "More" than the energy of the universe. I also think that the energy is a part of God.
  12. A great big giant huge "THANK YOU" to that who have registered and participated in the forum. Its kind of tough getting a forum off the ground without a ready-made member list!
  13. Today is day 2 of my umpteenth attempt to stop smoking. I am determined to succeed this time! Wish me luck, pray for me, hold me in your thoughts, or whatever works for you because I'm going to need all the support I can get!
  14. Dutch, I'm not sure if this is answering your question, but I think anytime I am confronted with someone who is represents something outside my experience, I try hard to understand, find common ground, and dialogue. Other than that, when I meet with someone who behaves in a way that is makes me uncomfortable I have to ask myself "Why?." What is it about this person that makes me uncomfortable? Can I learn something about myself? Does this person represent my anima or shadow? I agree completely with Armstrong's statement. I have tremendous respect for her.
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