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Everything posted by murmsk

  1. Glad you found it worthwhile. there are several On Being programs that I have listened to and al are good civil and meaningful discussions.. Check out the one on the Future of Christianity. It is a discussion between the new president of Focus on the Family and a progressive. It was very very encouraging and point on. steve
  2. This is perhaps the only respectful discussion between two people on opposite sides of the issue. Interestingly I have always been more pro-choice but some of her discussion points made me very uncomfortable. I had a hard time with her matter of fact discussion of the fetus and I think that view makes her uncomfortable as well because later she discusses that its a problem for her. This is a very worthwhile listen http://www.onbeing.org/program/pro-life-pro-choice-pro-dialogue/4863 Steve
  3. It would seem to me that a more accurate comparison would be to that of a rapist. Both are based primarily in an urge to dominate. Therefore if you can make the argument that the urge to rape is "natural " then perhaps you could make the same argument as applied to pedophiles. steve
  4. I agree a new thread is needed. I spent the weekend AI (away from the internet) and did a bit of thinking on why this thread sparked so much emotion in me. It seems whenever the conservative Christians start to lose the discussion about homosexuality they play the pedophile card as a deflective move. ....The Catholic Church attempting to deflect their pedophile priest problem with clouded references to gay priests. The GLBT community has spent the last ??? years with the unfair comparison with pedophiles, to perpetuate that is not helpful. I found the "natural" reference almost offensive..... not entirely sure why, but I did. Maybe I am uncomfortable with anything that might de-horrify the molestation of a child and humanize the pedophile. steve
  5. I do have a question, We all know a large percentage people who commit to another person end up cheating at one time or another. Is there any similarity between the impulse or attraction the cheater feels and the impulse a pedophile feels? steve
  6. My friend who was a psychologist in a prison with a large number of child molesters clearly states that a pedophile can't be "cured". He or she will always have the urge to abuse. He also admits that prison is often the only answer. steve
  7. I spoke with a friend of mine who was a psychologist at a prison with a large population of pedophiles and thus spent the better part of 10 years counselling people who have been sent to prison for molesting children. I presented the thought that a pedophiles attraction for young children might be similar to an attraction to an adult. His response was that they indeed have an attraction that seems to be hard wired but categorically disagreed with any similarity to an adults attraction to another adult. He said it was an attraction to dominate rather than an attraction to a person. Examples he used of similar attractions would be that of a serial rapist or one who gets satisfaction from torture, some serial murders and the like. He refused to say it was or might be genetic. steve
  8. Pedophilic desire is to desires between adults (hetero or homo) like rape is to making love or an abusive relationship is to a loving respectful relatiuonship steve
  9. I suspect if the conservative church lost the threat of eternal hell and had to survive on its true worth to its members there would be even fewer of them than PC'ers steve
  10. I suppose if one views this desire like you would view the desire to watch someone die. I see a much closer resemblance between these two desires than between the sexual desire for another adult and the sexual desire for a child. This is the definition of mental illness I got from a google search I am very uncomfortable with this definition because it is too tied to social values and customs. I would prefer it to be tied to hurt and damage to ones self and others Of course we should view all people with grace as long as it doesn't put anyone else at risk. I do feel for all who struggle with thoughts that by definition will hurt others. I stand by my statement there there is nothing at all loving about a relationship between an adult and an child. It is pure aggression. steve
  11. pedophilia is a mental illness there is nothing tender or loving about it. From the mass murder to the pedophile down the street. Make no mistake about it pedophilia is a mental illness.... there is nothing tender or loving about it!!! ever!!! steve
  12. Most psychologists would suggest the almost 100% of the time pedophilic desire of one of aggression and not love and that to consider pedophilic desire on the same level with love/lust whether heterosexual or homosexual is misguided at best. steve
  13. If it is the decision of the moderator board that this place chooses to not discuss anything political in nature , while I think it is a mistake, I can live with it. If however where ones opinion falls has any effect on the decision making process then there is a problem. steve
  14. May I ask why are topics such as gun control off limits here? These are topics we are having in our faith communities. These are topics we should be having in our faith communities. steve
  15. What do you mean by his own convictions? Steve
  16. In the first place I said reconsider the policies not blindly change them. Yes it is working ..... but could it be more? My personal opinion is we could use a bit more diversity in opinion around here. One of the problems that has been pointed out in the news media of late is that folks with differing opinions don't have to talk with one another anymore because we have the ability to easily find groups that agree with our points of view. Thus we, as a society, are losing our ability to have respectful disagreements and exchanges of viewpoints. This place has the ability to have respectful discussions about the issues that are and should be discussed in our faith communities ie: gun control, like few other places due to its active moderator group. You have the control to keep the discussions positive and respectful. I worry that this place will become another group where disagreement is not tolerated. steve
  17. Grace is how one relates to others
  18. When a group begins to lose GOOD, thoughtful, reasonable members over policy issues, it is time to reconsider the policies. steve
  19. I think there is some validity to this. I had an employee years ago whose husbands past was full of drug, alcohol and woman abuse . He found "religion" in a fundamental church and became a good husband and father. Without the church continually telling him how to live and the fear of hell, I am certain he would revert. I guess I don't view the bible as right or wrong but rather it is the product of the people who wrote it and as such it reflects all the views and hangups of the day. Plus, especially the letters, we are hearing only one side of a conversation. How many times have I said to my children if you do this there will be hell to pay. Perhaps they were hanging with the wrong crowd or not studying. Imagine hearing "If you hang out with boys you will ruin your life" with our knowing that "those boys" were involved with drugs . Even the most fundamental of bible readers filter what they pat attention to. In addition to the verses that condemn homosexuality the bible is equally clear in condemning wearing of different types of cloths and condoning slavery but these are always glossed over these days. In a sense what we choose to ignore is a product of our culture. Growing up I noticed this fluidity of views through the years. During confirmation I asked our Pastor why sins change and he didn't have an answer (at least that I can remember). Truth shouldn't change through the years. If it does then it is not truth. steve
  20. With in these 4 areas there are 2 distinct goals. Gun control and arming school officials has the goal of reducing the carnage of a murderous situation. Even if you has a society with no guns some person with a sharp stick can still kill. The difference is that it would be difficult to walk into a school and kill 20 kids. On a more realistic level outlawing 100 bullet clips forces the killer to reload producing times of venerability . Putting armed guards in schools just means the murder will be confronted sooner. These things reduce the carnage potential. These things do nothing to correct the underlying problems. Addressing the culture / mental health addresses the problem by speaking to the underlying problem of why someone would want to kill. My personal opinion is that there needs to be movement on ALL fronts. It is naive to think either without the other will not have have a satisfactory effect. If you handle the cultural/mental health issues you will get a decrease in the number of shootings but what shooting you do have will include a large # of people. If you deal only with gun control/ armed guards the total # of shooting will be large but it will involve smaller numbers of wounded/dead. My opinions on gun control are that we have gun control now. I hear no one suggesting legalizing full machine guns or RPG's so it not that you have some who want no gun control and some thatt want no guns.. rather it is where do you draw the line. Where does the potential for carnage out weigh a persons right to own? machine gun-no, shot gun-yes, RPG-no, semi-automatic w/ 5 bullets 22-yes, semi-automatic w/ 100 bullets - ??????? steve
  21. NO not at all! The issue has has to do with is the relationship one where both are fulfilled and enriched by the union. There is never a situation where the child is not harmed. And I might add that this has nothing to do with gay or straight. A better question might be that of polygamy. I can see potential situations where 3 people could have loving, mutually fulfilling relationships. steve
  22. Reading the bible for the first time again Marcus Borg Is God Christian Kirby Godsey
  23. Quotes are appropiate when the quoted does a better job of reflecting my thoughts than I can or I want to give credit for a novel idea. steve
  24. Following Jesus Is Costly I am not sure I agree with this anymore. Getting out of bed is costly. Growing up is costly Making decisions is costly I can say over all I have gotten more out my spiritual travels than I have put in. I know some have been and are persecuted but to state cost as universal ???? steve
  25. murmsk

    My Answers

    1. How does language “an approach to God” fit your spiritual needs? It fits my needs because it is vague and open ended. As I have aged my view of "an approach to God " has evolved. The one constant have been the teaching and life of Jesus. I assume and look forward to continued evolution in the years to come. There is room in the above statement for the evolution of understanding. 2. What language would you have used for you own spiritual journey? I am not sure I fully understand the question. The journey to enriched my life. 3. Do you feel as the life and teachings of Jesus have brought you closer to an experience of God? How so? I have come to understand that God wants me to be happy and wants my life to be worthwhile. The teachings and life of Jesus provides a framework around which this is accomplished. 4. How does the absence of salvation language help or detract from your spiritual path? In my opinion the concept of salvation, as it is understood and practiced in most church circles, has more to do with the church trying to control the masses than it does anything else. If you disobey the church you will not be saved. There is some wisdom in salvation if you move away from a literal interpretation. If you live a Jesus inspired life there is a good chance you might save yourself from a few problems as well as live non self-centered life of substance. 5. How does the Jesus of history or his teachings affect your understanding of God? It brings into focus that "belief" really has very little to do with it. My understandings are not tied to Jesus's divinity. 6. How might our understanding of who and what we are, as human beings, change if we remove the need for the sacrifice of Jesus as the Pascal Lamb, our redeemer? I think there is a way of including sacrifice language without compromising our progressiveness. Jesus did not have to die and did not die because of some agreement with God to spare me from some earned punishment. Rather was willing to die for what he knew was right much like MLK and Gandhi did. 7. What is the difference between savior, hero, master, teacher, or prophet for you? Savior is personal with some sense of being saved from something. Hero is a general societal thing with no necessity of a personal attachment. Master has authority over someone. Expects his/her subjects to obey without question if necessary. Master also takes responsibility of and for his/her subjects. Teacher teaches (nuff said) Prophet has wisdom that transcends the obvious. One who tells tomorrows truths. And that's the way I see it (right now). steve 0
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