glintofpewter

George, Paul, I agree. Our responses - primarily our conversations - is what will change our culture. To get stuck on any single factor - such as large capacity clips - is to miss all the other things that must also change. In another conversation I suggested that we ask our grand children to vote for presidents who will nominate Supreme Court justices who are not 'originalists'(if that is the correct word). The arc of change is that long. Dutch

Interesting resources. If you have resources please share them. Do not discuss the issue here. I have created a blog if any one wants to comment. http://lead-and-violent-crime.blogspot.com/ http://www.metrowestdailynews.com/editorspick_mobile/x1353234328/Holmes-Did-leaded-gas-fuel-America-s-crime-wave http://www.motherjones.com/environment/2013/01/lead-crime-link-gasoline https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http://www.ricknevin.com/uploads/Nevin_2000_Env_Res_Author_Manuscript.pdf http://pic.plover.com/Nevin/Nevin2007.pdf Dutch

dusktildawn, I couldn't agree more that the result of evolution is wondrous beyond understanding but the story I choose to tell about my personal relationship with ultimate reality is one of entities and internal and external relationships. If there is a logical fallacy that is important in my post it is mine: that of adding importance to my story by offering Birch's article and vocabulary. I would also reference Jakob Boehme who points to a yearning for relationship as the beginning and cause of all that is.I don't concur with Boehme that God's nature is fully developed shortly after one (static) becoming two (dynamic). (Do not be mis-lead by my using "God". God is not anything.) To the extent that we can speak of God at all I will say that God is evolving as creation is evolving. In the beginning there was no God and no universe, there was only the yearning for relationship. It is from this desire for relationship, that our sense of morality evolves. Dutch

If these relationships lead to wholeness that's great. Too often they are about power. Monogamous or any other combinations. Dutch

The film is a visual feast. I don't think one story is told instead of the other. One story is told first and the other second. One experiences the second first. The viewer works backwords. It would be an interesting story to weave the two together. Dutch

For liturgy that soars and Bruce Sanguin. His first book was "If Darwin Prayed" I also just found Drew Dellinger. Not a Christian but transcedant language. Rex Hunt for his prayers. C. Robert Mesle, Process Theology A Basic Introduction, Chalice Press, St. Louis, MO, 1993 (final chapter by John B. Cobb, Jr.) Dutch

I like this.

Having the experience is subjective. Not being sure of what happened and finding a narrative to explain it is not. That is the left brain that always has to have an explanation even if it appears irrational to others. We do find people who agree with us if we must to feel affirmed. Materialistically one can say that it is in the right brain that we have "unitive" experiences of feeling one with (the universe). Panexperientialists feel that entities are related externally (a materialistic concern) and internally (often labelled subjective). It is this internal relationship that we recognize when we have a unitive experience. * This does not mean that we are related to rocks. We are internally related to the atoms that make up the rocks. A long article about materialism, dualism and panexperientialism. Why I became a Panexperientialist by Charles Birch http://www.ctr4process.org/publications/Biblio/Papers/Charles%20Birch%20-%20Why%20I%20became%20a%20Panexperientialist.html This is too brief of an introduction to panexperientialism which is difficult for me to fully grasp but maybe it will help. Dutch

Kay, Welcome. From my personal experience - this is a place for evolving in safety. Dutch

Congratulations, Raven. Dutch

Welcome, Bound You will enjoy it here. Dutch

I think democracy might mean being willing to be in conversation and not having such a hard position that I am not willing to arrive solutions that don't match mine. That I accept institutions in place to redress injustices and initiate change and that I will respectfully and peacefully protest when I must. When it is common for left or right to have such intractable positions that a conversation which leads to a common vision is impossible then democracy is undermined. Dutch

I agree that some actions are only effective in their symbolism. I like the hope offered by hope in a seismic change. I will not have enough time to post all my thoughts now - after work we are packing for trip to North Carolina to visit my son - but on my long lay-overs I will. I started 4 different threads because I have come to believe that a successful response to these tragedies in a representive democracy can not rest on one or two factors. Passing an assault weapon ban or funding improved mental services must not be the only ways we measure our nations response. Part of our response is already happening and we should name it and claim it as part of a multi-faceted effort. The NRA's suggestion that we should have armed guards at schools is not off-the- wall. Many districts have already implemented such programs with creative funding. The NRA should support their suggestion by acceppting civil and criminal liability for their voluntary militia and offer grant money to school districts that can find none. Dutch

I have been asked to take a stronger hand in moderating my thread here. I see little to object to. It is off topic to propose a ban on assault weapons - that belongs in the "the Weapon" thread. And it only takes one sentence unless there are qualifications. My biggest objection is that we are talking about what someone else should do. Especially our favorite "Most evangelical Christians" who are not monolithic as we make them out to be. If you do not agree name the person you don't agree with. Other wise find references for "most" "evangelical" "Christian". I doubt "evangelical lutheran" is included but that is the problem when we think out of prejudice. We fail to recognize the dignity of others. This thread is for positive proposals. I do think conversations about this topic even if there is disagreement can in fact be part of the solution. But that is liberal slant. I have a strongly held opinion. In democracy we work from consensus. Dutch

Piers Morgan interviewed a gun rights advocate and called him an idiot I am told. This started a petition asking for his deportation because he was attacking the 2nd amt. 48000 last I saw. Supposedly it will be posted on whitehouse.gov and the president will have to speak in response. Dutch

So, given the current state of affairs, and if you agree that this society's culture has anything to do with gun violence, what would you suggest be done to improve things? Dutch

It could point out how American western expansion glorified guns. It could talk about the limited historical context of the second amendment. It might compare statistics in the US with other nations, showing it doesn’t have to be this way. If there are weapons in the household make sure young children can’t get at them. Encourage kids to report signs of mental illness in others, etc. ------------------------------ I like these suggestions. There is a current commercial by JPMorgan & Chase that is good. Without much tweaking it could include some of what you mention. Material would have to acceptable to gun rights people.Limited context for 2nd amendment might not get by them. Whether or not violent entertainment is causally relater to killing is not relevant. Suggesting that it is not good to think about killing others would help change the culture. Dutch

Is this a contributing factor to polarization and a petition to deport Pers Morgan? Insistence on creedal beliefs? Dutch

I think I've read that the evidence linking violent entertainment and violent behavior is mixed. But if we have an ongoing conversation about it - that conversation would affect the culture which in the long term would shift our attitudes. Dutch

Paul posted this. I think an ad campaign like this one about guns would help change the culture. A years long campaign like the anti-meth campaign. http://tcpc.ipbhost....7937#entry37937 Dutch

And what can the rest of us do? or do we have nothing to contribute?

So Neon, what is your suggestion? What can be done in the arena of culture to reduce mass killings?

for me Future does not have to be like the past. All I need to know I am able to learn through community and visions. dreams, inspirational, reading, meditating I can do something now to step on the bridge. It should be noted that I often don't see the bridge. Dutch

Armed guards at schools - already implemented in many districts around the country. Should they be paid or volunteer? How much training? In the first example the guard have SWAT experience. How should it be paid for? http://m.apnews.com/ap/db_262039/contentdetail.htm?full=true&contentguid=MENsaRnk&detailindex=#display Dutch

I have at least two responses. One I am on my phone and can't see the link for the video. It sounds like 'The Dance of the Fertile Universe'. It did all happen by chance but perhaps not by accident as Father Coyne suggests. One of the necessities that selects from the chance occurences is a desire for relationship. For example, out of billions of chance encounters two hydrogen atoms bump into each other under the right conditions and form a hydrogen molecule. In Process Theology there are internal and external relationships between all entities. The idea of internal relationships leads us to the ideas that we are all part of the universe and/or expressions of the universe evolving. Relationship requires two and we could say that God is becoming and evolving just as creation is. It takes two. Today is where we are in the relationship. As grampawombat said a year or two ago on this board and I paraphrase, "maybe some day God will evolve to the point that God is what we describe today." Two Life is accidental and we have no free will in the largest of meanings but in small ways we often live as if these were not true. "Life of Pi" speaks to this. Which story and in what circumstances would you tell? This is particularly important in the wake of calamanities. What story gets you through the night and leads to wholeness? Michael Dowd says the word "God" is how we tell stories about "ultimate reality mythically personified". So tell the stories that feed you and don't interrogate them as if they were science about external relationships. Experience the internal relationships that connect us and make us one with all that is becoming through chance and the necessity of relationship. You have no freewill. Live as if you do. Isn't that the challenge of existential despair? Dutch