TammyJo58

Hi! I too am an evangelical Christian, and through a lot of prayer and thinking about the issues, I realize that I am not a fundamentalist. However, I cannot divorce myself from the words Jesus or Christ, because He is the definition of Christian. The Christian Right may say,"Jesus is Lord," but they do not live like they believe what they say. He IS Lord and I'm not willing to give that over to them. The Bible addresses those of the Christian Right, so I don't know why Christians are suprised that they are so numerous. Jesus Himself tells us that not all who call Him Lord really know him. He tells us that there will be false prophets and that Christians will have "itching ears," to hear the message that they want, not the message they need. It's really not suprising at all. The job for the rest of us is to keep on keeping on, knowing that our way is "narrow." Don't forget that the opposite is also true - "wide is the gate that leads to destruction and many will travel it." God Bless, TammyJo58

Hello Seeking and Welcome, I have always been Southern Baptist. That is considered evangelical, and some would even call it Fundamental. If that's the case, I guess I am Fundamental. I don't get all caught up in these labels. I believe that as long as I follow Christ's two greatest commandments - to love Him with everthing within me, and to love my neighbor as myself - everything else will take care of itself. In my current Church (still Southern Baptist), my politics disagree with the politics of most of the people there. I do not hide it. The amazing thing is, if you are dealing with true "Christians," they are not going to condemn you for it. They are going to love you and accept you anyway, because of those same commandments. Sometimes it gets uncomfortable, especially during recent election years, but I have just as much right to be there as anyone else. I have looked into finding a more Mainstream Baptist Church in my area, but so far I have not visitied them. If and when I decide to make the move, it will be in God's time. Personally, I think He needs people like us inside the Church as a reminder to others - the sand in the oyster thing. I'm sure I make some of my fellow members and even my pastor uncomfortable sometimes, because I'm not a blind follower, but I consider that a good and necessary thing. God did not creat us to be blind, obedient followers who could not think for ourselvess. I do not post here often, but I read here daily. I agree that there are some interesting perspectives going on here. I don't agree with most of them, but I enjoy reading and then responding when I feel I have a contribution. God Bless, TammyJo58

Hi RevsBox, Thanks for your perspective! I feel you spoke for me, too. God Bless, TammyJo58

Hi! I don't believe DCJ's post suggested that he agreed with fundamentalists' view of the Bible, just that the Bible has essentially been interpreted as correctly as possible from the earliest manuscripts possible. I am a Christian that believes that the Bible is true, that Jesus is the Son of God, that there was a virgin birth, a crucifixion, a ressurrection, etc. I also believe that the Bible is clear about a lot of things, but ambiguous about others. I am against abortion - but I am also pro-choice. I think that homosexuality is wrong, but again, I do not think the Bible gives me a role of being a judge and a jury for those who choose that lifestyle. In fact, the Bible is quite clear that Christians should not judge others, especially since we are all sinners. It will be a personal accounting that all Christians, and indeed all people, will have to make before God in the end. That said, what drew me to this forum was my disgust and disappointment in the use of God's Word and His Church, or should I say misuse. I do not approve of politics in my Church. I certainly do not approve of my Faith being used to further a political agenda, especially when that agenda is against scripture. I do not approve of Christians abandoning what they know in their hearts to be true, for what is said from the pulpit, or from the television. In fact, today's Christian depends too much on other sources for truth - instead of the Bible. I read most of the posts on this forum. I appreciate others views, even though many times I am in disagreement. The fact that I will listen and not condemn tells me that I'm a little different than most of the other fundamentalists out there. God Bless, TammyJo58

Hi! I really enjoy the Life Application Study Bible. I have one in the NIV and one in the New Living Translation. When you read the commentary at the beginning and you see how many different denominations and scholars were involved, and when you read how exacting their research was, it gives you a confidence in it that, at least for myself, is lacking with some of the other versions. I grew up with the KJV, and my Pastor still uses it in his sermons, but when I study in private, the Life Application Study Bible helps give a clearer understanding of the scriptures. God Bless, TammyJo58

Hi! Both Joseph AND Mary were direct descendants of King David. Mary's genealogy is recorded in the Gospel of Luke. God Bless, TammyJo58

Hi! This sounds a lot like what happened in the Southern Baptist Convention. Once the conservatives of the convention gained power and elected positions, some of the more moderate congregations broke away or remained affiliated with SBC, but banded together to achieve some common goals. There is a kind of ongoing tug of war going on between them, but the SBC is much bigger, more powerful. It is now virtually impossible for a moderate Southern Baptist to be elected to an office in the convention or to be involved in any type of decision making within it. I have been doing a lot of on line investigating about this because of the role the SBC played in re-electing the President. The things that I am reading about are not widely publicized to the rank and file SBC church members, of which I am one. It would be my guess that the rank and file UMC are unaware of what is going on within their own denomination in any detail. God Bless, TammyJo58

BrotherRog, The fervor of "civil religion" built very slowly, so slowly that many Christians did not even realize that they were being led down a path away from what they once stood for. It's great to be patriotic, it's even greater to be a Christian, but when we start melding the two together, or letting our patriotism overtake our faith, we have lost our way - our focus. When we take our eyes off of Christ, and start relying on other things (patriotism, politics, etc.) to make us feel validated, we start "changing" the truths as taught in the Bible, to help us justify our "new" religion. As I stated on another forum, "Many Christians have thrown off the mantle of Christ, wrapped themselves in the flag, and taken on the agenda of a political party." To me, that epitomizes "civil" religion. My two cents worth on "civil religion." God Bless, TammyJo58

Gary743, I am pro-choice also, much to the consternation of my Christian friends. I am not in favor of same sex marriage because I think the Bible is pretty clear regarding homoexuality. I have also had some experience, as a teacher, with middle school aged students of same sex couples. The individuals in these relationships brought children into the relationship much like a man and a woman would attempt to "blend" into a family children from other partners. In the rural community where I live, you can imagine the reaction of others to that couple and their children. The children had trouble making friends, they spent a lot of time in the guidance department, one of the young ladies even wanted out of the home. To middle school aged children everything get magnified of course. It was not a pleasant situation to watch, because you were really helpless, you just had to be there for the mothers when they needed to talk about their children's progress, and you had to be there for the children to support them in any way possible. I really always ended up feeling like I wasn't helping anyone very much. My point in my previous post was that even if people have strong feelings about abortion and gay marriage, they should not let these two issue overwhelm other issues that I believe are "moral" issues also - the plight of the poor, the homeless, the helpless, the sick, the jobless, the hungry, etc. I believe that if we live Christ's example, these issues far outweigh any others. My husband and I are truly hungering for a congregation of believers that want to worship and serve God , and leave politics at the door. That is why I really wish there was more organization in the progressive Christian movement, so that then we could identify and meet with like minded Christians. God Bless, TammyJo58

Hi! I have not posted here in a while, but I have stopped in to read. I have not been able to put into words how I feel about the outcome of the election, so I thought it was best to remain silent. To say that I am disappointed would be a gross understatement. I prayed that God would open the hearts, minds, eyes, and ears of Christians all over this country to the truth. I have heard from some Christians over the past few months who have read my posts here and elsewhere and feel as I do. The Christian right is horribly wrong! For many of them it was like waking up from a deep sleep, looking around and saying, "Where did my Church go?" There are Christians out there who realize that we need to do something, but now one knows what. We need organization, and someone to step up and say, "Not all Christians are full of intolerance and hate!" The cornerstone of my faith is Jesus Christ, so I look to the Gospels for guidance. If I want to call myself a Christian, I should want to emulate Him. When asked, He said that the greatest commandment was to love the Lord our God with everything in us! I feel like many "Christians" have thrown off the mantle of Christ, wrapped themselves in an American flag, and taken on the agenda of a political party. That is contrary to Jesus example and leads people to focus on something other than their God. He also said that the second greatest commandment was to love our neighbor as ourself. That is why I vote Democratic. My family has problems, but I know there are millions out there who are much worse off than we are, and I don't think God wants us to turn our back on them. When we deliberately place our vote so that it hurts our "neighbor", I believe it is against what God wants. I do not agree with abortion or gay marriage, but I do not believe that what should certainly be issues during election time should end up being the ONLY issues upon which Christians vote. One of the saddest outcomes of this entire mess, is that my husband and I feel funny about attending our Churches. I am Southern Baptist and he is Catholic, and for twenty plus years we have attended both. When you do not feel welcome in God's Church, you have to wonder, "Is it God's Church anymore?" Thanks for letting me rant. God Bless, TammyJo58

DeborahDP, I appreciate your response and understand why many people, including Christians, have a negative view of Southern Baptists. The reason why I still attend a Southern Baptist church is because I believe is the basic tenets of our faith. I have attended Southern Baptist churches since I was twelve and there are many great people and great Christians in them. I am convinced that many of them feel like I do. It has only been within the last decade or so that the convention has turned so political. Maybe sometime in the future the Lord will lead me somewhere else, but until then I'll stay where I am and try to work within the "system". God Bless, TammyJo58

Hi! My name is Tammy and I am a Christian, a Southern Baptist, a public school teacher, and a DEMOCRAT! I do not believe these "I am's" contradict each other. I do not believe in abortion, but I serve a mighty God, and I believe he is concerned about a lot more in this country than just abortion. If you read the Gospels, you will be hardpressed to find much in common between the teachings of Jesus Christ and the Republican Party platform. This was not always true, but since Eisenhower's time, the Republican Party has changed drastically. The really troubling thing is, that many Christians are so taken in by the "politically religious", that they hand their vote over to this party without blinking an eye. Shouldn't those who name the name of Christ be concerned about the same people that Christ was concerned about? If we do not believe in what He believed in, why do we believe in Him? It is increasingly uncomfortable to attend church when some of the prayers and sermons rival the best paid political advertisements! Do you think God honors that? I don't! Why aren't we encouraged to pray during election time? Is it because our pastors and the "politically religious" know that when real Christians pray for guidance during election time, the outcome might not turn out to be what would benefit their own agenda? Aren't we asked to boldly approach the throne of grace? When we accept pamphlets from the "politically religious", when we listen to prayers in our churches that do not ask for wisdom during election time and that His will be done, but beseech God to let everyone vote for President Bush, when we listen to sermons that deal mainly with abortion and homosexuality and nothing else, we have to ask ourselves the question - where are we? In church worshipping the living God, or are we at a political rally worshipping a man? I believe that it is bibically immoral for us to know that there are poor, hungry, sick, homeless, jobless, handicapped, etc. out there and only pay lip service to them. I believe that it is biblically immoral for us to treat them as if their problems were all their own fault. If Christ's churches were doing Christ's work, these problems would not be as serious as they are today. Yet we get all sanctimonious when the government steps in and tries to help these problems with social programs. The first thing out of our mouths is BLEEDING HEART LIBERAL! or maybe TAX and SPEND! Well, someones heart needs to bleed. And we call ourselves Christians. I believe that there are those "politically religious" out there for whom the abortion issue is just a smoke screen. I believe that for them the most attractive aspect of the Republican Party is it's fiscal policies. These "politically religious" stand in churches and assure God that everything they have is really His, but they live their life by the motto: "What's mine is mine"! I am convinced that if Jesus Christ came back today and decided to run for office, he would not get elected. I am convinced that this is because many Christians would not vote for Him. He would want to help too many people that we don't want to associate with, and besides, it might cost us money in the long run, taxes you know. Finally, repeat after me, "GOD is not spelled GOP!" Thanks for giving me a chance to voice my opinion! GOD BLESS Posted by: Tammy Jo at July 5, 2004 04:08 AM