If the kingdom of God REALLY IS within US.....then it really is up to us to cause change in our world. What do you think?



Blessings,

Jerry

Hi Jerry...I try to do that just as often as possible. Right now we need more change than ever.

flow....

Hi Flow....great to chat with you again,

I have been thinking a lot lately about the possibility that God ONLY exist within us,and if that staggering thought is true....it gives a whole new meaning to the phrase.."IF IT IS TO BE....IT IS UP TO ME".

Many blessings to you Flow,


Jerry

I believe what you say here Jerry is true for me. I belong to a very fundamental, "supernatural theistic", evangelical church in Iowa. Many happenings on this site have caused change in my heart to a more progressive approach toward war, inclusion, social justice etc. I was on the church council for three years and felt quite paralyzed because I would have been a fish out of water regarding some of my thoughts. Now I am off the council of the church and feel very free. Much more free to enhance change but it's not exactly my personality and I don't articulate too well. I don't know if I should run and find community elsewhere or try to change things.

This community of diverse sisters and brothers is where I really feel safe.

thanks for you thoughts

bob

Hi Jerry, Bobve2:

Well...G-d is assuredly within us, but my belief is that G-d also animates every other living entity each moment. That is a hard thing to contemplate, but when careful observations are made over time, I do not see how this could be denied.

flow....

Hi Bob,

What you said about 'feeling free',has exactly been my experience. I too,came from a
very fundamental,judgemental church. But when I finally began to study the spiritual life on myown, without the supervision of my church....wonderful things began to happen.
For the first time in my life, I,m no longer ,afraid of God,and it has been the most liberating time of my life.
And the fact that you said that you feel ,safe, here,is a very strong indication that you are in the right place.

Many blessings to you my friend,

Jerry

I feel we need the consciousness of God to express His power through us to enable us to see Him operating universally through others and ourselves, bringing to us what we need to grow and be happy. This kingdom of God is expressed in the harmony and power within. If we do not have a conscious awareness of the presence and power of God's pure consciousness, then it cannot work through us. If we have no consciousness of our money in the bank, it ceases to be of any use for us also. We could have a million dollars in the bank, but it would be of no help, if we were not conscious of it.

I feel everything is within God, but he sees within and He/She sees without through our eyes.

"There is no God when there is nothing but God."

If you'll allow me to ruminate a bit....

Last Sunday I went to a service for the first time in many months, a small Protestant church which I thought was fairly liberal or progressive--the minister was new to me and I was curious. His sermon was partly based on John Baillie's World War II prayers, and partly on the film "Saving Private Ryan." He put scenes from it on the viewer screen. The point was that we should "earn" the sacrifices made by our soldiers. He suggested we pray for the president. Later, talking about the bible, he said if we read Jesus' parables and felt something good, we were reading them wrong.

Alferward I thought, this is why I don't go to church more often. :-)

Still, it made me realize how my spiritual writing has been mixed with my views on government. Yet separation of those two perspectives is important to me.

Later, I found a comforting escape or return to wholeness by reading the Tao. When Christianity or all religions seem to be exploited to serve politicians, going back to the Tao helps me feel more at peace, more accepting that "the universe is forever out of control." Inside the cover, I had pasted a verse from a Buddhist master Saichi, which had been quoted by Tariki or Joseph M [?] on this board. "The truth is, there is nothing the matter with one, and there is nothing more that makes one feel at home."

Jerry, there is something that churches can do to change the world.
It begins in Matthew 5:43-48:
43"You have heard that it was said, 'Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.' 44But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47And if you greet only your brothers, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.
Also in Luke 6:27-35:
27"But I tell you who hear me: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, 28bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. 29If someone strikes you on one cheek, turn to him the other also. If someone takes your cloak, do not stop him from taking your tunic. 30Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back. 31Do to others as you would have them do to you.
32"If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? Even 'sinners' love those who love them. 33And if you do good to those who are good to you, what credit is that to you? Even 'sinners' do that. 34And if you lend to those from whom you expect repayment, what credit is that to you? Even 'sinners' lend to 'sinners,' expecting to be repaid in full. 35But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back. Then your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High…

Jesus’ teaching in this respect, matches the Buddhist teaching that undiscriminating, spontaneous, unlimited love and compassion are possible even toward those who have done you harm – your enemies. Furthermore Buddhism teaches that the power of this love is astonishing. This is supported by new discoveries in the field of Quantum physics that show us that praying for those who mistreat others actually works if it is done right!

A process of logical thinking that shows why it works starts with the Gospel of Thomas:
Saying 3: Jesus said, "If your leaders say to you, 'Look, the (Father's) kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you. If they say to you, 'It is in the sea,' then the fish will precede you. Rather, the (Father's) kingdom is within you and it is outside you.
Saying 77: Jesus said, "I am the light that is over all things. I am all: from Me all came forth, and to Me all attained. Split a piece of wood; I am there. Lift up the stone, and you will find Me there."
It is quite obvious here that Jesus is not talking about himself. What he is describing is the holographic nature of the universe. Michael Talbot, a free lance writer and author of The Holographic Universe elaborates on the theory of physicist David Bohm, a protégé of Albert Einstein, that the universe is holographic. One of the characteristics of a holograph is that if you split it in half, the two halves contain the whole. Furthermore, if you split it into an infinitely large number of parts, each part contains the whole. This means that the whole universe is in every single part of it. That means that every single human being contains the entire universe within the self! “I am in My Father, and you are in Me, and I am in you.” (John 14:20) I use I here in bold italics to distinguish it from I, the self centered ego of each individual person. According to a quantum theory proposed in 1964 by J. S. Bell, a physicist at the European Organization for Nuclear Research in Switzerland, all that is in between is connected in an intimate and immediate way previously claimed only by mystics. The current day Gnostic Christians call it the pleroma. The Pagans call it the unbroken wholeness. The Mandaeans, followers of John the Baptist, describe it as the union of life in which there is no separation. It is this wholeness that is called Me, because it is within each and every one of us. The container for that wholeness is the omniscient consciousness, or collective consciousness or the One Consciousness to which we are all connected. I AM the omniscient consciousness found everywhere in the universe.

The pioneering work of Karl Pribram, professor of neuropsychology at Stanford University, in the Department of Psychology and in the medical school, and the studies by other researchers, who have followed, show that our brains function as holographic information processors. Currently, more than 6 billion people inhabit the earth. Within the container of the omniscient consciousness, each individual’s mind is part of a larger single awareness. Every mind contains the pattern of the whole consciousness and is connected to this One consciousness. This means that meditative prayer that emanates love can have an effect on leaders and groups of people who are acting in a manner that is producing harm to others.

The best organization to test this theory is the Church. At the moment unfortunately, church leaders tend to pray only for their own members promoting the interests of their well being, a practice that, according to Matthew 5 and Luke 6, doesn’t impress Jesus. Why don’t we apply his teaching of loving our enemies and praying for those who persecute? This approach, if it works, could release millions of people from the chaos of bondage, poverty and misery produced by despotic and egoist leaders. Would it not be better for Churches to pray for despotic dictators, fundamentalist religious leaders and nationally self-serving political leaders because they are the ones that produce the greatest misery in the world and therefore are the ones most in need of spiritual assistance? If church congregations pray for sovereign leaders and insurgents who make war, perhaps they can influence their egoist consciousness enough through the One omniscient Consciousness that these leaders will see the error of their ways. Churches are institutions that are in a position to organize mass prayers for the powerful ones who are able to use religion and political ideas as an excuse to hoard wealth through taxation, torture, and murder; to intimidate others and make war to make themselves important, and powerful. I throw down the gauntlet to the Churches, to introduce a new weapon for the war on terror, the war on drugs and the wars fought in the name of a cause – mass prayers for each of the terrorist leaders, western leaders, despotic leaders and leaders making war against whoever. Single out one particular leader at a time and make these mass prayers very large and very public and very simple. “We pray for Mr. Leader who has within him the kingdom of the god of love”, followed by a moment or two of silence as you meditate on the essence of that person, is all you need as far as the actual prayer is concerned. In order to understand the essence of the target, his behaviour must be thoroughly researched with the idea of developing a high level of respect for him and his Holy Books. Encourage everyone to read and learn as much as possible about the target before the prayer starts. View the target as though he is a god, because he is, not in the sense that he needs to be worshiped, but in the sense that his Self contains all the essence of god. You must also avoid being self righteous and judgmental about his egoist, adversarial and tyrannical behaviour. You must abide by the teaching of Jesus that you love this person. If you do otherwise, you are practicing what ha Satan, the adversary would do. If you admonish him in any way, you are acting as his adversary as is taught in the Book of Job. To act as his adversary, makes you just like him with his adversarial ways. In the moment or two of silence, visualize yourself in a friendly social activity with him. Visualize having tea with him or splitting a beer with him, or visualize yourself walking along the beach with him. Whatever you enjoy doing that involves absorbing the pleasantness of nature and friendly relationships; visualize yourself doing it with him. If your research reveals that he enjoys hiking, and you also enjoy hiking; visualize yourself hiking with him. Don’t look for the garbage in his scriptures, look for the wisdom that works and visualize yourself studying that piece of scripture together. If you are successful in altering the behaviour of oppressive terrorists and dictators, war mongering kings and presidents, pimps, sex slave traders and criminals, you free up their victims from the misery and oppression that these dysfunctional people create.

Organizing the prayer would be a massive project if done on a world wide basis. You would have to employ the media, synchronize the prayer around the time zones and repeat it often over the span of, say, six months or a year; or until you begin to notice a difference in the genuine behaviour of the target. This would be a very bold move for any church to take, but praying for those who persecute is a fundamental part of Christian teaching. It is a mandate of Christians to love their enemies and it is about time we put it into practice. Just imagine how good a church congregation would feel if they could free the people of North Korea, Afghanistan or Iraq or any other country from tyranny through prayer! If the prayer worked, other churches would sit up and take notice.

BobD

I like the idea of looking for the wisdom and not the gargace. Thanks that is a nice phrase. The wisdom you speak of helps me perceive pure consciousness pervading all things and understand more clearly that God has absolute control over all creation, and that each individual is already one with God, inseparable from Him. I feel most people are not aware of this because they are immersed in creation and the idea of materiality. They are deceived into thinking that disease (not being at ease, dis-ease) is real, and that the devil and sin are everywhere. Until a higher view is cultivated through prayer and purification of thought it will certainly appear that the devil can control our lives, but this is a false and temporary view because under God there can’t be a broken harmony in creation.

Christian Mystic

Ok, Jerry. I really want to contribute to this thread, but I'm seeing two different subjects here: 1.) Where is God and 2.) Where is the Kingdom of God. Are you wishing to discuss the "God only exists in US" issue or the "Kingdom of God is within US" issue. Or perhaps both? <<geez, fatherman! just discuss SOMETHING for Christ's sake!>>

Okay! Okay!

If God is only within US....

Depends on what you mean by US. If US = Humans, then God is the collective soul of the human species. Not a bad way to go if you don't fancy the God the Creator business. If by US you mean the whole of Creation, then you're still stuck with the Creator issue (but I'm sure it could still be worked through). Personally, I prefer to think of God as being both the substance of the Universe as well as the Creator and Sustainer of the Universe.

If the Kingdom of God is within us...

This is good news (IMHO), because it makes Christianity more about the now and less about the after. It means we can experience what it's like for God to be King right now. It means that, if we choose, we can enter the Kingdom of God at any moment and experience the joy and peace of God. It means that we can do something about injustice and discord in the world....right now.

Way to go Fatherman....
You captured exaxtly what I was trying to say with your sentence"..If we choose,we can enter the kingdom of God at any moment". It also raises the startling possibility...What if God has ALWAYS been within us....WHAT IF HE NEVER LEFT! as the church has tried for centuries to convince us. I shudder when I remember what the church of my childhood taught...Quote: "All babies are born innocent and pure,but at some point,at some age,(here comes the cruel part)..GOD LEAVES US,and will not come back unless we meet certain standards of repentance and orthodoxy.
I JUST DON"T BUY THAT ANYMORE!

Blessings to you my friend,

Jerry

Interesting! Perhaps at a "certain age" we realize that we can block out those compassionate impulses and (cue evil laugh) serve ourselves!!! Then, as we've all seen, learning to hear the God within takes all our effort and attention for the rest of our lives! It's nice to think that it starts out easy and natural.... gives me hope that it will be again.

Very well said Soma.

I also think that before we can move on to a purer form of thought we have to recognize the garbage.

I notice that some churches in Australia have put signs up saying “Jesus loves Osama”. This kind of action does nothing to further the cause of loving your enemies. Because it is widely known that Osama is Moslem, it comes over as an effort to promote Christianity over Islam. Doing anything that promotes your religion over any other may gain some converts, but it also creates friction and anger among the committed believers of the other religion. It is also egocentric behaviour because it carries the assumption that your religion is better than some one else’s. The sign also leaves open the question as to why they think that Jesus loves Osama. Does he love him because he is doing a good job or in spite of the fact that he harbours so much anger against Jews and Americans? Loving your enemies must be unconditional and the prayers or statements directed to people of other religions must in no way have any ulterior motive attached to them. Furthermore, the love must come from those participating in the prayer or the statement, not on behalf of a third party such as Jesus or Mohammad or Krishna. No one has the right to claim that a third party loves anybody. How would they know? They are not in the mind of that person. It is especially ridiculous if that person is dead. Regardless of the length of time it takes to do it, elevating that deceased person to the status of an idol called God or the Son of God and then proclaiming that this God loves or doesn’t love anyone is no different than elevating a golden calf to the same status and making the same proclamation.

Recognizing when where and how we are creating garbage wisdom is the first step towards joining the ranks of unbroken harmony.

BobD

I like your point we must recognize the garbage because that garbage is another person's treasure. Some will fight for that garbage not recognizing that it is just play do.