[tariki]

Its sometimes difficult for me to decide on what forum - even on what particular sub-section - to raise a particular question. So many things seem to cross boundaries......at least to my own wayward mind! For some reason it just seems appropriate here, for me now, living in this moment!

Well, enough waffle, I'm here now..........

What is the importance - even the point - of having a particular "cosmology", understood as some sort of backdrop to our lives? (I remember raising this once, in a slightly different context, on an explicitly Buddhist Forum and in response to my question....Whats your cosmology?.....one wit answered........A little foundation with just a slight color on the cheeks, mascara and lipstick..... )

There seems to be "living in the moment" and "living within a world-view". A transcendent God creating the world, the world "falling", the God "saving", and perhaps the saviour "coming again" to judge the living and the dead.........................or "beginningless time", karma and rebirth etc etc.....................and the endless variations. It does seem to me at times that it is these various "world-views" that cause many of the disputes between the religions. Many seem to think them important, and the dogmas that are invariably associated with them.

So what importance do they have? Is one "right" and the others "wrong" and in what sense? Would it be important to have the "right" one?

"Living in the moment" and "living within a world-view". A conflict? Or a dialectic? Or what?

Thanks

This post has been edited by tariki: 20 May 2007 - 03:09 AM

[McKenna]

tariki, on May 20 2007, 04:07 AM, said:

Its sometimes difficult for me to decide on what forum - even on what particular sub-section - to raise a particular question. So many things seem to cross boundaries......at least to my own wayward mind! For some reason it just seems appropriate here, for me now, living in this moment!

Well, enough waffle, I'm here now..........

What is the importance - even the point - of having a particular "cosmology", understood as some sort of backdrop to our lives? (I remember raising this once, in a slightly different context, on an explicitly Buddhist Forum and in response to my question....Whats your cosmology?.....one wit answered........A little foundation with just a slight color on the cheeks, mascara and lipstick..... )

There seems to be "living in the moment" and "living within a world-view". A transcendent God creating the world, the world "falling", the God "saving", and perhaps the saviour "coming again" to judge the living and the dead.........................or "beginningless time", karma and rebirth etc etc.....................and the endless variations. It does seem to me at times that it is these various "world-views" that cause many of the disputes between the religions. Many seem to think them important, and the dogmas that are invariably associated with them.

So what importance do they have? Is one "right" and the others "wrong" and in what sense? Would it be important to have the "right" one?

"Living in the moment" and "living within a world-view". A conflict? Or a dialectic? Or what?

Thanks

I don't know what importance they have, but I think they're sort of inevitable. We all are indoctrinated by our societies with worldviews that we aren't even aware of until we come across another worldview that is it conflict with it. For example, the Western view of time as a linear progression is quite different from the view of some Eastern cultures, as well as Native American cultures, who view it in a way that I as a Westerner can't quite understand.

I guess whether the worldview is "right" or "wrong" depends on what kind of worldview you're talking about. In the case of time, none can really be right or wrong because it's simply a matter of perception. I think this is true of many worldviews but not all. For example, IMO, a worldview that holds one's own race above others is simply wrong. Yes, it is a matter of perception, but I cannot believe that the views espoused by the KKK are right in any sense of the term.

Living in the moment...I think it's possible but I don't think it replaces living within a worldview. I'm not really sure how they compare at all, actually. Maybe I'm not understanding your question?

[soma]

The more we are aware of God the Father's pure consciousness working in and through everything, especially within ourselves, the more God’s presence can replace prior limitations and disharmonies with good. This is a world view so our minds can act on the new ideas that are formed and form a new, more positive belief and attitude. This deep understanding or world view sees the good of God everywhere and always present. This shift in attitude brings greater freedom; peace and joy so we can give up the old worries, free ourselves and replace old ideas with the knowledge that everything we need is available in the present, which is living in the moment. Living in the moment is recognizing unity with God's pure consciousness and this pulls into our life more success than we ever-dreamed. Applying foundation in the moment helps and was a great response to your question. Thanks for posting it.

[JosephM]

tariki, on May 20 2007, 04:07 AM, said:

(snip)
There seems to be "living in the moment" and "living within a world-view". A transcendent God creating the world, the world "falling", the God "saving", and perhaps the saviour "coming again" to judge the living and the dead.........................or "beginningless time", karma and rebirth etc etc.....................and the endless variations. It does seem to me at times that it is these various "world-views" that cause many of the disputes between the religions. Many seem to think them important, and the dogmas that are invariably associated with them.

So what importance do they have? Is one "right" and the others "wrong" and in what sense? Would it be important to have the "right" one?

"Living in the moment" and "living within a world-view". A conflict? Or a dialectic? Or what?

Thanks

Hello Derek,

It seems to me everyone creates their 'own world'. No two are exactly the same. In my view it really doesn't isn't import (matter) if one is 'right' and others 'wrong'. Delusion is delusion. Is one delusion better than the other? I think it depends on what one wants. Keep it simple.... Follow Peace and Unconditional Love with ALL without exception and that is what you will find. Or follow the endless variations til you reach the end of that particuliar rope and then return and follow all that leads to Love and Peace. What is a lifetime anyway but merely chapters in a seemingly never-ending story? Just some thoughts to consider.

Love and Peace,
JM

[tariki]

Thanks for the various responses. I remember at one time on another forum, a Buddhist saying something like.....asking what is real or unreal takes us a long way from understanding Buddhism (this in response to my own question concerning a comment by another that "Bodhisattvas were obviously mythical") I was not particularly comfortable with this idea, that what is "real" or "unreal" has no import..............even though, for myself, I have never been able to rest within any particular "world-view". They just seem to create problems! Again, I remember reading somewhere about the Roman Catholic G K Chesterton who said that after his own long search for "truth" he saw this world as "just as it would be" if the Christian cosmology/world-view were true. Alas, such a comment echoes the view of people of other faiths who equally see the world as confroming to thier own particular world-view, and seems to be a common thing................except in those who by investigation come to know more than one cosmology with any great depth and understanding...........then the sparks start to fly!! Day to day experience seems to fit with a whole multitude of "views" if we wish to "fit" them anywhere at all!

Anyway, a little quote from W H Auden, which I just happened to post on another thread on another forum, which now comes to mind and seems appropriate..............

That girls are raped, that two boys knife a third,
Were axioms to him, who'd never heard
Of any world where promises were kept,
Or one could weep because another wept.

Yes, I certainly agree with McKenna that some worldviews are better than others. Each can be the platform and the catalyst for our actions within the world.

Thanks again
Derek

[canajan, eh?]

tariki, on May 20 2007, 04:07 AM, said:

There seems to be "living in the moment" and "living within a world-view". A transcendent God creating the world, the world "falling", the God "saving", and perhaps the saviour "coming again" to judge the living and the dead.........................or "beginningless time", karma and rebirth etc etc.....................and the endless variations. It does seem to me at times that it is these various "world-views" that cause many of the disputes between the religions. Many seem to think them important, and the dogmas that are invariably associated with them.

So what importance do they have? Is one "right" and the others "wrong" and in what sense? Would it be important to have the "right" one?

"Living in the moment" and "living within a world-view". A conflict? Or a dialectic? Or what?

Thanks

Tariki (may I call you Derek?), it's Jesus channelling through Jen in response to your excellent thoughts about cosmology.

I appreciate the clarity with which you've defined the two main cosmological belief systems that govern culture and religion on Planet Earth: "living in the moment" and "living within a world-view". I can't disagree with you -- you're seeing things quite accurately. On the other hand, this doesn't make either belief system right from the point of view of God and God's angels. Just because a belief system is old -- with a pedigree of ancient manuscripts and scholars -- doesn't make it a healthy belief system as far as your soul is concerned. Sometimes it's easier to grasp this truth by looking at a field outside theology. When you look at the history of scientific theory, it's easy to find examples of beliefs that were widely held, that were widely acted upon, though these beliefs were ultimately shown to be not only wrong but extremely damaging. Bloodletting is an excellent example.

So it's important, when looking at questions of cosmology, to be skeptical of long-held beliefs. Are you required, as a person of faith in this modern age, to accept the old teachings of either world view? Or is it permissible for you to step outside the box and search for a new, holistic, practical, but deeply poetic cosmology -- one which not only fits the facts, but which makes your life happier, healthier, more compassionate, more blissful?

In answer to your question as to whether "living in the moment" and "living within a world-view" are in conflict, I would answer that these two are in conflict with each other, and they're both in conflict with the Truth. Neither cosmology addresses the truth and the beauty of divine love. For this reason, there's no dialectic. You can stitch both sides together as much as you want through dialogue, and you'll never emerge with a sound philosophy, because the starting point for both sides is false.

Part of the reason these belief systems have hung on for so long is that people don't want to hurt the feelings of their ancestors. They don't want to say, "You know, my great-great-great-forebears made a mistake, and that's okay. They were doing the best they could at the time, but that's not the best we can do today, so I'm going to look forward -- not backward -- on my spiritual journey." They don't realize their ancestors are long since Home with God the Mother and God the Father in Heaven, and their ancestors no longer hold the beliefs of their human years. Believe me, you wouldn't be dishonouring the memory of your forebears if you were to ditch a few of their human ideas. In fact, in their life as beautiful angels, they'd probably be grateful if you took the opportunity to learn from their human mistakes!

This brings us somewhat closer to the concept of Time as God and God's angels perceive it. Is Time linear? Or is Time . . . well . . . timeless, without beginning?

The answer to this is clear and unequivocal. Time is absolutely linear. There's no going back in time (H.G. Wells and other writers notwithstanding). There's memory, which allows God and God's angels to remember what happened in the past and what it felt like. But there's no going back and "fixing" one's mistakes. There's deep acceptance of all that has happened. There's great anticipation about what will happen. There's intense gratitude for all that's happening right now that's so very perfect. But there's no vague, floating feeling of being timeless. There's no sense, to angels on the Other Side, that we live in a timeless state where all that will ever be known is already known. In fact, it's exactly the opposite. We, as angels, have the sense that as a family of loving beings we're all learning and growing together. We're all changing as Time helps us understand and appreciate the experiences of the past. We're all developing our unique soul talents, we're all trying new ideas within the context of divine trust, courage, gratitude, and devotion. We don't know the future because we haven't created it yet. But the one thing we, as angels, know for certain is that every angel contributes as much as possible to this venture of learning, growth, change, relationship, laughter, and song. We throw ourselves into learning with all our hearts, all our minds, all our bodies, all our talents. We give back with all our might to our beloved Mother, Father, brothers, and sisters. We love mightily.

So why do so many people talk about living in the moment, and yearn to live in the moment? The instinct among spiritual seekers to live in the moment is a valid instinct. The instinct to live in a state of peace and grace originates in the soul. Naturally, those trying to connect strongly with their own soul will sooner or later wrestle with this cosmological question. How does one do it? What does it mean? Does it mean you have to live in a timeless state where you let go of the past and try to detach from thoughts about the future? (This is the way the question is currently being interpreted by many spiritual teachers.) The answer is no, if you're asking an angel on the Other Side. The answer is that you mustn't let go of the lessons of Time. The answer is to learn to forgive. When you learn to forgive, the painful experiences of the past no longer haunt you. You remember what happened, and you remember how much it hurt, but you take the pain and you turn it something deeper, wiser, richer. You turn it into humble acceptance of what was. You turn it into gratitude for the phenomenal level of Trust placed in you by our Mother and Father. You turn it into an awareness of the extent of your courage as a soul (and also as a human being). You turn it into a deeper understanding of who you are as an angel, and what your unique gifts are. You turn it into divine love.

When you do these things, you find peace, grace, comfort. When you do these things, you live in the Christ Zone each moment of each day. You're so grateful for divine love that you take each moment as it comes with a sense that you trust God, and that God trusts you. You look to see what you can learn each moment. You look to see how you can serve God each moment. You're so busy being grateful for the moment you're living in that you spend no time worrying or agonizing about the past. So to other human beings (those who haven't yet learned how to forgive), it seems as if you've let go of the past, as if you're living in the moment, as if you're kind of weird. But really you've just acquired emotional maturity by trying with all your might to learn to forgive.

This is what I learned to do during my lifetime as Jesus.

This is the promise I made when I lived as the spiritual teacher called Jesus. I promised that if you loved your God and loved your neighbour as yourself, that if you accepted God's forgiveness, you would find the Kingdom Within. The Kingdom Within is your own soul, your own incredible integrity as one of God's angels. Your own soul is glorious, and I love you. Please, my friends, please take the steps you must take to know yourself as I do. I believe in you, and so do our blessed Mother and Father. Stop whining and making excuses. Stop looking for salvation. Your salvation has never been in question. Your loving Mother and Father would never cast you out. Never. They love you. The problem for most people is not God's lack of love for them. It's their lack of love for God.

That's the way I see it.

Blessings to you all,
Love Jesus
June 13, 2007

[canajan, eh?]

tariki, on May 20 2007, 04:07 AM, said:

(I remember raising this once, in a slightly different context, on an explicitly Buddhist Forum and in response to my question....Whats your cosmology?.....one wit answered........A little foundation with just a slight color on the cheeks, mascara and lipstick..... )

Hey, I could go for that! And in my humble opinion, Estee Lauder's Projectionist mascara is the best mascara ever invented.

Love Jen