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The Questions I Ask And What I Believe


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#1 tariki

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Posted 26 April 2017 - 03:19 AM

Just a summary for my own clarity of mind. I no longer ask "Is there a God?" The question has so many presuppositions and baggage that I can no longer see the wood for the trees. The loud voices of the over ardent drown me out.

For me I/we live in a Cosmos, not a chaos. There is significance to our lives.

I love books like "Gods Gravedigger" and other such anti theist tomes. They explain with great clarity exactly what cannot be. What is left after what cannot be, unsayable and beyond logic, must needs be lived.
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#2 thormas

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Posted 26 April 2017 - 08:02 AM

The question of God does have a lot of presuppositions and baggage. Perhaps it is the former teacher in me, but I enjoy the question and the need/challenge to present an alternative understanding to theism.

 

However, I do agree there is significance to our lives and we live not in chaos but in a Cosmos....but, for me, the cosmos and all live in 'God.' Properly understood :+}


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#3 JosephM

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Posted 26 April 2017 - 09:31 AM

Cheers Mate,

 

That's no rubbish. Cosmos it is to me also. The question " Do you believe in God" is no longer a suitable question to me as it gets me knackered. To me it is similar to a non-question both in that it is as you say "full of presuppositions and baggage" and also by my own definition, the answer is self evident.

 

Excuse my Brit slang  :)

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"The only separation between you and me can only be in your mind." --Joseph Mattioli


#4 tariki

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Posted 26 April 2017 - 10:02 AM

but, for me, the cosmos and all live in 'God.' Properly understood :+}


"He's got the whole world in his hands" Perhaps more "the whole world IS his hands"? But then, why "his" hands? Why "hands" and not "beak" or "claws"? Properly understood? Or more "properly imagined"?
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#5 tariki

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Posted 26 April 2017 - 10:05 AM

Cheers Mate,
 
That's no rubbish. Cosmos it is to me also. The question " Do you believe in God" is no longer a suitable question to me as it gets me knackered. To me it is similar to a non-question both in that it is as you say "full of presuppositions and baggage" and also by my own definition, the answer is self evident.
 
Excuse my Brit slang  :)
Joseph


"Knackered" is a bit near the mark for an English Gentleman like myself.

Laughing Face!
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#6 thormas

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Posted 26 April 2017 - 11:32 AM

"He's got the whole world in his hands" Perhaps more "the whole world IS his hands"? But then, why "his" hands? Why "hands" and not "beak" or "claws"? Properly understood? Or more "properly imagined"?

 

The Egyptians tried animals and it didn't work out so on to imagery that was closer to us. The dove for the Holy Ghost didn't do much for me either.

 

Perhaps one starts with imagining and moves to understanding.


Edited by thormas, 26 April 2017 - 11:34 AM.

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#7 romansh

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Posted 26 April 2017 - 03:00 PM

For me I/we live in a Cosmos, not a chaos. There is significance to our lives.

 

The cosmos is chaotic! It is the interesting bit.

 

Not say there is not order in it, but that order is very definitely overwritten in chaos.


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#8 romansh

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Posted 26 April 2017 - 03:02 PM

"Knackered" is a bit near the mark for an English Gentleman like myself.

Laughing Face!

 

And what about rubbish ... I liked that.

Though knackered has two broad slang meanings tired and damaged.

The latter meaning is epitomized in the knacker's yard ... slaughter house.

 

It was not clear to me which meaning George was pointing to when he asked do you believe in God?


Edited by romansh, 26 April 2017 - 03:07 PM.

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#9 tariki

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Posted 27 April 2017 - 05:30 AM

And what about rubbish ... I liked that.
Though knackered has two broad slang meanings tired and damaged.
The latter meaning is epitomized in the knacker's yard ... slaughter house.
 
It was not clear to me which meaning George was pointing to when he asked do you believe in God?


"Rubbish" I'm pretty attuned to. As far as the knacker's yard is concerned, I'll cope with that when the time comes.
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#10 tariki

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Posted 27 April 2017 - 01:21 PM

The cosmos is chaotic! It is the interesting bit.
 
Not say there is not order in it, but that order is very definitely overwritten in chaos.


As long as I remember I have had a love of trees. Part I think because of the sheer chaos of the branches within a deeper symmetry. I really do find them reassuring and healing to look at.
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#11 JosephM

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Posted 27 April 2017 - 04:21 PM

I also find no confusion and balance at a deeper level in what many see as chaotic, turmoil or the seemingly randomness of life. Perhaps it is just a choice i have made as a result of my own experience? It does also, to me, seem to be reassuring and healing.


"The only separation between you and me can only be in your mind." --Joseph Mattioli


#12 soma

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Posted 27 April 2017 - 05:07 PM

I noticed dog is in the word God so why not serve animals as God if one is so inclined to do so maybe we will come closer to loving humans in the process. Americans at this point in general treat their dogs better than the sick, elderly and down and out. 


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#13 thormas

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Posted 27 April 2017 - 05:38 PM

I noticed dog is in the word God so why not serve animals as God if one is so inclined to do so maybe we will come closer to loving humans in the process. Americans at this point in general treat their dogs better than the sick, elderly and down and out. 

 

I was surprised by this comment from you. Of course you generalize although I do agree that western countries, or at least the USA, have a problem with what to do with those who are elderly and/or sick. Perhaps the aging of the boomers will help rewrite this....or not, one can hope.

 

As for dogs, if you truly love your dog, you're probably pretty good with people, including the elderly, after all, dogs are social animals. Now cats owners on the other hand..............


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#14 PaulS

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Posted 27 April 2017 - 05:49 PM

I noticed dog is in the word God so why not serve animals as God if one is so inclined to do so maybe we will come closer to loving humans in the process. 

 

Well in Genesis God did say he made plants for eating and animals for human companionship!  Maybe Christians should stop eating the companions God made for them?  (Just a little of the buried vegan in me coming out).


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#15 soma

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Posted 27 April 2017 - 05:50 PM

I was being tongue in cheek thinking of the people who are cutting money for the elderly, sich and poor are willing to feed their dogs steak every night with their tax breaks. More money is spent hiding our problems then dealing with them head on, but the hope like you said thormas is if people get close to their dogs, they will get closer to everyone else. No one in the world should go hungry, but we don't have the will to feed everyone, we have the resources, but not the compassion.  


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#16 romansh

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Posted 27 April 2017 - 06:29 PM

As long as I remember I have had a love of trees. Part I think because of the sheer chaos of the branches within a deeper symmetry. I really do find them reassuring and healing to look at.

 

Yep  ... trees brought to you by the chaos in the universe.


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#17 soma

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Posted 27 April 2017 - 10:42 PM

Isn't science about finding the order that sorts out the cause,sequence and structure that brings the tree to us?


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#18 thormas

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Posted 28 April 2017 - 08:09 AM

I was being tongue in cheek thinking of the people who are cutting money for the elderly, sich and poor are willing to feed their dogs steak every night with their tax breaks. More money is spent hiding our problems then dealing with them head on, but the hope like you said thormas is if people get close to their dogs, they will get closer to everyone else. No one in the world should go hungry, but we don't have the will to feed everyone, we have the resources, but not the compassion.  

 

On this I agree completely.


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#19 romansh

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Posted 28 April 2017 - 02:43 PM

Isn't science about finding the order that sorts out the cause,sequence and structure that brings the tree to us?

 

It is more about finding descriptions of that order and understanding the causes underlying that order.

Here is an example of a chaotic/random process creating ordered shapes from one simple rule and a dice.


Edited by romansh, 28 April 2017 - 02:48 PM.

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#20 soma

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Posted 28 April 2017 - 02:55 PM

ramansh, Thank you that video is awe awe awesome. 


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