Bullet Points, Axioms And Holistic Thinking

[tariki]

I realise that I think holistically. "Airs and graces" may come to mind, but there really is no judgement involved of better or worse.

 

(Holistic:- characterized by the belief that the parts of something are intimately interconnected and explicable only by reference to the whole)

 

I am also much like a sponge. I find that unlike some, I have no suit of armour that deflects unwanted thoughts, beliefs and opinions as soon as met - alas, they sink into me, swirl around, confuse me. This I why I often need "time out" after a thread or two. Time out to get back to where I am, which is nowhere. Maybe others have the safety of various axioms that deflect opinions of others as soon as heard, along the lines of "heard THAT one, got the T-Shirt, NEXT please" No, not me, for better or worse.

 

We shall not cease from exploration. And the end of all our exploring will be to arrive where we started and know the place for the first time. (T S Eliot, "Little Gidding")

 

Reading somewhere, the lines above are about "the end of the conditioned self and the beginning of existence", which would mean for me that true existence is nowhere. Once THERE, we are ready to move forward.

 

For the garden is the only place there is, but you will not find it
Until you have looked for it everywhere and found nowhere that is not a desert;
The miracle is the only thing that happens, but to you it will not be apparent,
Until all events have been studied and nothing happens that you cannot explain;
And life is the destiny you are bound to refuse until you have consented to die. (Auden, "From the Time Being")

 

Thinking holistically, all these musings stem from the thread on Pilgrimage. The relevance is seen, or not. We are all somewhere along the path. Please wave if you can see me.

 

Here are another few words from Auden, this time from "The Shield of Achilles".....

 

That girls are raped, that two boys knife a third,
Were axioms to him, who’d never heard
Of any world where promises were kept,
Or one could weep because another wept.

 

So, just what "axioms" do we live by, what suit of armour do we wear, what words cover the Word?

 

 

I really must away to wring out the spong. Thank you.

 

Namu Amida Butsu!

 

(Good grief, must just post some more words that preceed the "garden" quote.....

 

If the muscle can feel repugnance, there is still a false move to be made;
If the mind can imagine tomorrow, there is still a defeat to remember;
As long as the self can say "I," it is impossible not to rebel;
As long as there is an accidental virtue, there is a necessary vice:
And the garden cannot exist, the miracle cannot occur. )

 

 

 

 

[JosephM]

Tariki,

 

It seems to me also that true existence is without locality. There is nothing to judge, believe, defend or need for axioms for opinions that need deflecting. Not that we don't from time to time forget such and fall back into the mire that swirls around us and seems to tell us that we need such. Until we once again taste of the subtle yet ever present energy that sustains us in this dream and we come to the repeated realization that we have no such needs .

 

Just musing after reading your quotes and remarks.

[Burl]

How does one distinguish all this from narcissism and self-delusion?

[romansh]

How does one distinguish all this from narcissism and self-delusion?

 

They are both products of the universe Burl ... I have got over my self delusional narcissism.

 

Having said that we are much better identifying narcissism in others ... I don't worry about it any more.

[SteveS55]

At least I don't have to worry about "missing the point" of your post, Tariki. I would wave if I could see you. There must be a mountain in the way (or a mole hill). The best we can do is send up digital smoke signals from time to time and hope a stiff breeze doesn't make them unintelligible.

 

If we fail to follow our own inclinations, as delusional or true as they may be, we risk confounding the Tao of our existence. Delusions will resolve when we look at them.

 

Steve

[tariki]

How does one distinguish all this from narcissism and self-delusion?

Obviously, with difficulty.

 

Maybe, looking back, the seriousness of one's own questions? How radical our own "judgement of self" has been?

 

To appeal to any "fruits" of the spirit that are evident - or not - is obviously off the agenda.

 

Whatever, all is in Amida's hands.....or arms.....or heart.

[soma]

 

 

Burl, on 07 Jan 2017 - 09:22 AM, said:

How does one distinguish all this from narcissism and self-delusion?

 

I would venture to say Narcissism leads to low self-esteem, feelings of anxiety, sensitivity to insults or criticism and lack of interpersonal skills.

 

 

I realise that I think holistically. "Airs and graces" may come to mind, but there really is no judgement involved of better or worse.

 

I think holistic thinking leads to bliss and a state of grace.

[JosephM]

How does one distinguish all this from narcissism and self-delusion?

I seem to have no such need or interest for either. Perhaps one might say that itself is delusional. Perhaps, and perhaps not.

[tariki]

If the mind can imagine tomorrow, there is still a defeat to remember.........and the miracle cannot occur.

 

 

Just reading through again. And "betrayal" popped up, perhaps just what I was seeking to express.

 

But, whatever, back to the mirror for some more much needed grooming.