Three Days And Three Nights

[rstrats]

Whenever the three days and three nights of Matthew 12:40 is brought up in a "discussion" with 6^th day crucifixion folks, they frequently argue that it is a Jewish idiom for counting any part of a day as a whole day. I wonder if anyone has documentation that shows that the phrase "x" days and "x"nights was ever used in the first century or before when it absolutely didn’t include at least parts of the "x" days and at least parts of the "x" nights?

[PaulS]

rstrats,

 

No documentation from me, sorry. I am aware of the argument, but just don't get it when it comes to the three 'nights' bit.

 

I can accept the three 'days' meaning parts of days and therefore entombed Friday/out Sunday I could accept as three days, but I think it is more than a stretch for anyone to argue that the Jewish idiom argument can be stretched to fit 3 nights. To me, no matter which way you cut it, entombed Friday/out Sunday is not even a look in at 3 nights. Of course, others will argue against this.

[NORM]

In the Talmud, it is told to us that G-d will rescue one of his own on the third day after some tragedy or calamity. This is gleaned from a pattern recognized all throughout the Tanakh.

 

The passages most Christians interpret as "predicting" Jesus' crucifixion and resurrection (Isaiah 53 mostly) are actually referring to prophecies concerning the people of Israel as a whole. A verse in Hosea is said to refer to a time at the "end of days, when...

 

“After two days he will revive us; on the third day he will raise us up, that we may live before him”

 

This is an obvious reference to what we call "the World to Come," which, it should be noted, is nothing at all like the apocalyptic vision of Christian eschatology.

 

The World to Come is a time in the future when there will be peace on earth and all people will live in harmony with one another. At one point in the history of Judaism, it was thought that Moshiac would usher in this era. Most have abandoned the notion of a special "savior," and interpret all such references to apply to the people as a community. This is why you find most Jewish communities busy doing tzedakah (good works) to help advance this World to Come.

 

Anyway, the authors of the story of Jesus were undoubtedly aware of this famous passage, and applied it to the telling of the resurrection story - thus, we get the crucified, dead and buried...on the third day...etc...It's steeped with symbolism. It should not be read literally.

 

As far as your friend telling you that any portion of a day is considered a whole day in "Jewish idiom?" Well, I'm Jewish, and I've never heard of anything so silly. Maybe what this person is referring to is the fact that we count Shabat from 6PM (technically moonrise) Friday evening until 6AM Saturday morning - kind of slicing a day in half???

 

I hope this helps.

 

NORM

[rstrats]

Since it's been awhile, perhaps someone new looking in will know of some documentation.

[rstrats]

Below is a change to the OP to make it a bit more clear.

Whenever the three days and three nights of Matthew 12:40 is brought up in a "discussion" with 6th day crucifixion folks, they frequently argue that it is a Jewish idiom for counting any part of a day as a whole day. I wonder if anyone has documentation that shows that a phrase stating a specific number of days as well as a specific number of nights was ever used in the first century or before when it absolutely didn’t include at least a part of each one of the specific number of days and at least a part of each one of the specific number of nights?

[JosephM]

rstrats,

 

I think ----> HERE is the explanation you are speaking of. Whether the Jews custom is to count that way, i do not know. Norm being Jewish has previously said in post #3 above the answer is No.... that is not a Jewish take on the issue.

 

Perhaps posting the question on a Jewish site might confirm it to your satisfaction. It has been one point of contention between those who say the Bible has errors and those who say it doesn't. If that is the real issue it seems to me there are better examples than the 3 days and 3 nights issue.

 

Joseph

[jorgenjl]

Sorry I don't have any documentation but if memory serves me correctly when I researched this a while back, the only issue is with "three nights" and that really is no issue:

 

1) All of the gospels, including the gospel of the Hebrews, all refer to three days except for Matthew who adds on "three nights"

2) When the authors of Matthew and Luke wrote their gospels they used a common source (usually referred to as "Q")

3)--"Q" most likely had the following: Jesus said, "This is a wicked generation. It asks for a miraculous sign, but none will be given it except the sign of Jonah for the Ninevites repented at the preaching of Jonah, and now one greater than Jonah is here.

--Luke 11:29-30: Jesus said, “This is a wicked generation. It asks for a sign, but none will be given it except the sign of Jonah. For as Jonah was a sign to the Ninevites, so also will the Son of Man be to this generation.

--Matthew 12:39-41 A wicked and adulterous generation asks for a sign! But none will be given it except the sign of the prophet Jonah. For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of a huge fish, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. The men of Nineveh will stand up at the judgment with this generation and condemn it; for they repented at the preaching of Jonah, and now something greater than Jonah is here.

4) The original teaching did not have anything to do with "three days and three nights" and was added on for whatever reason by the author of Matthew

5) I was convinced enough from my research that any part of a day did indeed count as a day. Your mileage may vary.

[rstrats]

JosephM,

re: "I think ----> HERE is the explanation you are speaking of."

Thanks for the link but it doesn't show a phrase that states a specific number of days as well as a specific number of nights when it absolutely doesn't include at least a part of each one of the specific number of days and at least a part of each one of the specific number of nights.

[rstrats]

jorgenji,

re: "Sorry I don't have any documentation..."

OK, perhaps someone new looking in will know of some.

[JosephM]

rstrats,

 

Just what is the point you are trying to make here in this thread? No one here is disagreeing with you and i see you have posted the same question and comments on a number of different internet sites under the username rstrats..

 

Joseph

[rstrats]

JosephM,

re: "Just what is the point you are trying to make here in this thread?"

For the purpose of this topic I'm not trying to make any point. I simply would like to see some writing as requested in the OP.

re: "No one here is disagreeing with you..."

I don't know what I have said that could call for agreement or disagreement.

re: "...and i see you have posted the same question and comments on a number of different internet sites under the username rstrats.."

Any particular reason for feeling the need to point that out?

[JosephM]

Rstrats,

 

You are posting in the debate and dialog area. Points are indeed made here. You have made 11 posts and not yet bothered to first introduce yourself in the introductions area as is customary in this community. It appears from first impressions and reading your identical posts and your dialog on at least 5 different forums that your intent may not be simply to request some writing. I could be wrong but never-the-less, you have been now placed on moderator approval of posts until you have at least introduced yourself, telling us a little about yourself and background and what you are hoping to accomplish by being a member of this community. Also please familiarize yourself with our guidelines and etiquette here should you choose to stay.

 

Thanks for your cooperation,

JosephM(as Moderator)

 

added - PS If it is indeed just documentation you are requesting rather than a debate, a single note to limit your bandwidth use for such things in the Cafe area would suffice.

Edited May 18, 2013 by JosephM
PS

[rstrats]

JosephM,

 

re: " It appears from first impressions and reading your identical posts and your dialog on at least 5 different forums..."

 

Actually, it's probably more like 40 different sites.

 

 

 

re: "...that your intent may not be simply to request some writing."

 

I assure you that for the purpose of this topic that that is my only intent.

 

 

 

re: "added - PS If it is indeed just documentation you are requesting rather than a debate, a single note to limit your bandwidth use for such things in the Cafe area would suffice."

 

I'm not sure what you're telling me. Could you elaborate?