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The "feast": Eucharist, Or More?


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#21 glintofpewter

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Posted 22 September 2011 - 06:29 PM

When I participated in a Seder as the Last Supper the 4th cup was called the Elijah Cup and it was suggested that Jesus might be understood to be using this cup, implying that he was a new Elijah, and the afikomen piece of matzo as the dessert so that the Disciples would always have a taste of the shared meal with Jesus - until the next. Such a reading suggests then that Communion is based in a Passover meal with Jesus asking them to associate the Elijah Cup and the afikomen with him.

Does John avoid an account of the Passover because of an anti-Jewish leader bias?
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"If she hears anything, it's tambourines, and nobody can march to them. You can't do anything but dance to tambourines, and the likes of us will never catch the rhythm."
Ferrol Sams (The Whisper of the River)

#22 glintofpewter

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Posted 22 September 2011 - 06:35 PM

One pastor suggested any elements would do. Coke and fries for instance.
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"If she hears anything, it's tambourines, and nobody can march to them. You can't do anything but dance to tambourines, and the likes of us will never catch the rhythm."
Ferrol Sams (The Whisper of the River)

#23 GeorgeW

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Posted 22 September 2011 - 07:34 PM

It seems very plausible to me that the Last Supper arose out of a real historical event which did involve a Passover Seder celebrated by Jesus and his disciples. Then, when exposed to Hellenistic culture, the ritual acquired some of the symbolic aspects of eating and drinking the body and blood of Jesus.

George
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#24 Brent

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Posted 22 September 2011 - 08:21 PM

The Mithraic cult/religion was widespread throughout the areas where Paul of Tarsus carried his form of 'Paulinity'. Perhaps Paul was willing to make ritualistic compromises (eating the flesh of a Christ as a substitution for the sacrificial bull, wine for blood, etc.) with adherents of Mithraism in order to 'convert', intending thereby to accelerate the growth of early Christianity. Just a thought...

Brent
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#25 Pete

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Posted 26 September 2011 - 01:34 PM

The Mithraic cult/religion was widespread throughout the areas where Paul of Tarsus carried his form of 'Paulinity'. Perhaps Paul was willing to make ritualistic compromises (eating the flesh of a Christ as a substitution for the sacrificial bull, wine for blood, etc.) with adherents of Mithraism in order to 'convert', intending thereby to accelerate the growth of early Christianity. Just a thought...

Brent

I guess that would seem possible considering 1 Corithinians 9:19-23
19Though I am free and belong to no man, I make myself a slave to everyone, to win as many as possible. 20To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win the Jews. To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law), so as to win those under the law. 21To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God’s law but am under Christ’s law), so as to win those not having the law. 22To the weak I became weak, to win the weak. I have become all things to all men so that by all possible means I might save some. 23I do all this for the sake of the gospel, that I may share in its blessings. NIV

But then Paul was also said to be against participating in other faiths. 1 Corinthians 10:14-22.
14Therefore, my dear friends, flee from idolatry. 15I speak to sensible people; judge for yourselves what I say. 16Is not the cup of thanksgiving for which we give thanks a participation in the blood of Christ? And is not the bread that we break a participation in the body of Christ? 17Because there is one loaf, we, who are many, are one body, for we all partake of the one loaf.
18Consider the people of Israel: Do not those who eat the sacrifices participate in the altar? 19Do I mean then that a sacrifice offered to an idol is anything, or that an idol is anything? 20No, but the sacrifices of pagans are offered to demons, not to God, and I do not want you to be participants with demons. 21You cannot drink the cup of the Lord and the cup of demons too; you cannot have a part in both the Lord’s table and the table of demons. 22Are we trying to arouse the Lord’s jealousy? Are we stronger than he? NIV.
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#26 glintofpewter

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Posted 27 September 2011 - 09:18 AM

Acts 17:22+
Don't have a Bible but the passage is about Paul in Athen talking about the unknown God. Not only does he use the altar to the Unknown God he quotes two different Greek authors. Even though Paul may have had no intention of syncretism it would be a likely outcome when these cultural references are used as a way attracting a stranger's thought.
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"If she hears anything, it's tambourines, and nobody can march to them. You can't do anything but dance to tambourines, and the likes of us will never catch the rhythm."
Ferrol Sams (The Whisper of the River)

#27 GeorgeW

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Posted 27 September 2011 - 10:25 AM

I think syncretism can be unintentional in some instances and it can also be intentionally tolerating the more trivial aspects of another religion while focusing on the essential elements of one's own religion.

Or, it can just be intentionally pragmatic - What is the best way to win over these hearts and minds?

George
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#28 Brent

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Posted 27 September 2011 - 05:23 PM

Friends,

While I can’t speak for Paul’s intentions, it does seem likely to me that he and his supporters were intent on “winning” those of other religious persuasions to his version of the gospel of Jesus. Perhaps we’ll continue discussion regarding the syncretism involved.

For those who haven’t had the inclination to fully read UP 179, I’d like to add a couple of follow up quotes to those I previously posted on this thread. This goes back to Jesus’ initiation of “the new Passover” at the Last Supper:

179:5.7 … "When you do these things, recall the life I have lived on earth among you and rejoice that I am to continue to live on earth with you and to serve through you…”

179:5.8 And this mighty occasion took place in the upper chamber of a friend. There was nothing of sacred form or of ceremonial consecration about either the supper or the building. The remembrance supper was established without ecclesiastical sanction.

179:5.9 When Jesus had thus established the supper of the remembrance, he said to the twelve: "And as often as you do this, do it in remembrance of me. And when you do remember me, first look back upon my life in the flesh, recall that I was once with you, and then, by faith, discern that you shall all some time sup with me in the Father's eternal kingdom. This is the new Passover which I leave with you, even the memory of my bestowal life, the word of eternal truth; and of my love for you, the outpouring of my Spirit of Truth upon all flesh."


These words serve to present a defining focus for the value of “the new sacrament of remembrance”. His bestowal life was indeed the living Word (Bread) of God, the eternal truth, actually made flesh. The outpouring of his Spirit of Truth (Wine) upon all men is the enactment of his love. In partaking the sacrament (formally or informally, individually or in a group) - our symbolic rendezvous with Christ - we are simply honoring his bestowal life and being grateful for his loving presence. That’s my interpretation, anyway…

In good spirit,
Brent

Edited by Brent, 27 September 2011 - 05:26 PM.

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#29 Pete

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Posted 02 October 2011 - 02:52 PM

I found this Utube vid that I found interesting. It also mentions the Eucharist.

see:-

and :-

Edited by Pete, 02 October 2011 - 03:11 PM.

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