Pax Posted September 6, 2010 Share Posted September 6, 2010 A section from the middle of my first sermon based on Point 3 -- for your consideration ... This bread and this wine represent God's radical invitation to ALL to dine in the kingdom of God. Come all you without money, without power, without the requisite good looks and fine education. Come to the feast of the lamb, all you who labor Come, partake of the tree with twelve kinds of fruit, that bears its fruit each month... and whose leaves are for the healing of all the peoples who have AIDS, who have malaria, fevers, malnutrition ... Who've lost their babies... their husbands... their hope. They took your job so you couldn't feed your family. They took your daughter in front of you, then killed her casually. Who have died in coal mines, who coughed out their lungs with coal dust. Who are sickened unto spiritual death by the toxin of worldly wealth... Who are addicted to substances and cannot stop, cannot stop, cannot stop ... You were tortured, raped, intimidated, spat upon, shut up in prisons... YOU!! YOU!! God invites you to a feast where there is love without earthly limitations without questions about which religious team you've been rooting for... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soma Posted September 8, 2010 Share Posted September 8, 2010 Thank you, I enjoyed those verses. The meal is satisfying and makes us whole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mona Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 A section from the middle of my first sermon based on Point 3 -- for your consideration ... This bread and this wine represent God's radical invitation to ALL to dine in the kingdom of God. Come all you without money, without power, without the requisite good looks and fine education. Come to the feast of the lamb, all you who labor Come, partake of the tree with twelve kinds of fruit, that bears its fruit each month... and whose leaves are for the healing of all the peoples who have AIDS, who have malaria, fevers, malnutrition ... Who've lost their babies... their husbands... their hope. They took your job so you couldn't feed your family. They took your daughter in front of you, then killed her casually. Who have died in coal mines, who coughed out their lungs with coal dust. Who are sickened unto spiritual death by the toxin of worldly wealth... Who are addicted to substances and cannot stop, cannot stop, cannot stop ... You were tortured, raped, intimidated, spat upon, shut up in prisons... YOU!! YOU!! God invites you to a feast where there is love without earthly limitations without questions about which religious team you've been rooting for... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mona Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 I have read that the bread and wine taken at communion in the Roman Catholic Church doesn't just "represent" the body of Jesus but is transformed into the actual blood and body of Jesus. Any opinions? Geneva Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick the Nevermet Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 I have read that the bread and wine taken at communion in the Roman Catholic Church doesn't just "represent" the body of Jesus but is transformed into the actual blood and body of Jesus. Any opinions? Geneva I'm not a Catholic, and I don't pretend to know the doctrine of transubstantiation very well. That said, to claim that bread takes on the "essence" of Christ's body during a religious ceremony, and that eating it is important for one's spiritual well being is interesting. Hans Urs von Balthasaris on my reading list to correct my ignorance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeorgeW Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 I have read that the bread and wine taken at communion in the Roman Catholic Church doesn't just "represent" the body of Jesus but is transformed into the actual blood and body of Jesus. Any opinions? Geneva According to Julia Corbett in Religion in America, "Catholics believe that in the sacrament of the Eucharist, the bread and wine actually become the body and blood of Jesus Christ when the priest speaks the words of consecration [. . .] transubstantiation is based on a philosophical distinction between what something actually is (its substance) and what it appears to be. In transubstantiation, the substance of the bread and wine become the body and blood of Christ, who is fully present under the appearances of bread and wine." George Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vridar Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 I have read that the bread and wine taken at communion in the Roman Catholic Church doesn't just "represent" the body of Jesus but is transformed into the actual blood and body of Jesus. Any opinions? Geneva Geneva, See my post under Other Wisdom Traditions. I have no personal knowledge, but, have been led to believe transubstantiation is primarily a Roman Catholic belief. It definitely originated with the One Universal Church prior to reformation. Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meducator Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 I have read that the bread and wine taken at communion in the Roman Catholic Church doesn't just "represent" the body of Jesus but is transformed into the actual blood and body of Jesus. Any opinions? Geneva Official Roman Catholic doctrine regarding Holy Communion,states that the substance of the bread is changed into the substance of the body, and the substance of the wine is changed in to the substance of the blood. This doctrine is called "Transubstantiation". In other words, it looks like bread and wine but actually IS "the body and blood of Christ". Another way of expressing this, it is the "Real Presence" of Christ in the "elements" of bread of wine. this doctrine was rejected by most reformers in the 16th Century......Note, most Anglicans (Episcopalians) still accept a "Real Presence" of Christ in the sacrament, but they don't define how or what...but that, Christ is "really present" when the bread is blessed, broken and shared, and the cup of wine is blessed and shared..they don't define the how, it is considered a mystery, similar to the way Eastern Orthodoxy approaches this topic. This explains why you will see tabernacles where the sacrament is "reserved" in Roman Catholic and most Anglican churches. The Lutherans also believe in a "Real Presence" in the sacrament but to best of my knowledge, do not "reserve" the sacrament. The Lutheran belief is closer to the Anglicans, than to the Roman Catholics. Note..Roman Catholics will literally worship the elements, e.g during service of benediction, where the consecrated bread, albeit the "Body of Christ" is placed in a large golden stand, known as a Monstrance for a blessing and adoration by the faithful. This is unique to the Roman Catholics, although I've read there are some very "Catholic" leaning Anglicans who observe this practice, but this would certainly not be the norm. For most of Protestant christendom, the bread and wine (or grape juice) are symbols or represent the body and blood of Christ, but NO Real Presence in the elements is assumed or believed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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