[October's Autumn]

grampawombat, on Jun 19 2009, 09:01 PM, said:

I agree with OA that "Church is primarily for community...." I go most Sundays because I feel the need for nourishment. That means good preaching (from scripture, topical, challenging, and, frankly, entertaining) and ironically some of the things that turn others off, such as the more traditional liturgical elements and hymns. But then I am 73. If others can wait another decade or so, perhaps those of my ilk will no longer be an impediment.

Following up on minsocal's comment. I too appreciate the older generation in my church. I teach Sunday school for adults on Sunday morning. My most faithful attenders for 3 years I've been doing this are a couple. He just turned 88 in March. His wife is about the same age. Most of the rest of the people who attend are retired and over 75. I wouldn't have a class without them.

[MOW]

Rather than start a new topic ,I think I'll post this here. I work at a community center in an urban area. I've noticed that several "churches" or Christian groups rent space at the facility on a monthly basis. This way, of course, they don't have to worry about mortgages, heat, light, utilites etc. I don't know what you all think about this but it seems to work for them.

Most of the groups are Fundamentalist Christian or New Age groups my guess is that the members might prefer this to megachurches.

Anyway what to you think of this option.



MOW

This post has been edited by MOW: 03 July 2009 - 03:05 PM

[AllInTheNameOfProgress]

I think it's great to use a community center as a place of meeting for a church. I watched a video about "boat church" in Florida, where everyone pulled up to hear a preacher on the shore. Too bad I live in Colorado where we don't have too much water or too many boats or enough hot days in the year to make that work. Then we really wouldn't have to worry about mortgages, light, heat, etc.

[glintofpewter]

In Aurora, Colorado, I encountered a "Fireside Church" which didn't have more than 17 members and met in members' homes. Small but mighty. They raised $600-$1000 to help a homeless couple transition. One of them became an advocate for the couple.

Again no rent, no lights, no ... overhead.

[faithdrivenmom]

Quote

I figure I can be just as good a Christian whether or not I go to church.

I have to 100% agree with this statement, because no where in scripture does it directly tell us we need to be in a local church to be a part of The Church (the Body of Christ - the community). Yes, Jesus does go into the Temple to address the Jews - that is where Jews congregate. The Temple - the Synoguage. But, did he worship God there? No. He went out unto the world, sitting with the tax collectors, speaking with the prostitutes and those not in the Temple and worshiped there. I see worship as a means to exalt God's love - be it through singing, gathering together, doing what God has lead one to to, giving of oneself out of selfless-love, and sharing God's love with others through our example (not just our words). So I have to find myself in applause for this statement being made. Because if we cannot follow Christ outside the "church" walls - really, what good is it to even to to "church?" He doesn't call the equipped, He equips the called - and we (as followers of Christ) are the called. And the equipment we have are our hearts, ears, minds and mouths to use responsibly as He gifted us - and they are to be used in the world, not in a place behind closed doors that excludes.

[AllInTheNameOfProgress]

Thanks for broadening my horizons a bit. I appreciate all of you helping me think about this issue. Just because much good comes for me out of being in a community where people can help test my thinking, give me support and new ideas, and "share the journey" doesn't mean that works for everybody. Some people are able to stay in shape without belonging to fitness classes, too.

[therevcoach]

October said:

She is 100% correct. And I would add she is likely to be a better Christian if she does not go to church. I think churches do more harm than good when it comes to practicing Christianity.

Church is primarily for community. It has little if anything to do with actually practice.

That resonates with me big time. I have made more spiritual progress outside of a "church" than when I was in one actively.

[JosephM]

therevcoach, on 02 August 2009 - 01:20 AM, said:

That resonates with me big time. I have made more spiritual progress outside of a "church" than when I was in one actively.

Welcome therevcoach,

And thanks for your input on this subject. Perhaps you will tell us a little about yourself under introductions.

Joseph

[the magician]

What a great thread - and one which I can see from both sides.

I tend to think of spirituality as about looking and seeing (waking up to what is always there yet we are often closed off to). It is nothing to do with mere beliefs. The Church, however, thinks it's role is to look and see for the rest of us, and then merely ask us to believe in what it saw. Thus religious faith is always one or two or three steps removed from experience. Yes I feel we do need religions and churches - ideally as safe and inclusive places where we can share such experiences and articulate (by ritual and worship) our responses to those expereinces - but they should NEVER be used as a substitute for the personal, life transforming encounters of the divine. What did Jesus say - 'Go set a new religion' or 'The kingdom of God is within you'?

Mark

[soma]

the magician, on 05 August 2009 - 06:22 AM, said:

What a great thread - and one which I can see from both sides.

I tend to think of spirituality as about looking and seeing (waking up to what is always there yet we are often closed off to). It is nothing to do with mere beliefs. The Church, however, thinks it's role is to look and see for the rest of us, and then merely ask us to believe in what it saw. Thus religious faith is always one or two or three steps removed from experience. Yes I feel we do need religions and churches - ideally as safe and inclusive places where we can share such experiences and articulate (by ritual and worship) our responses to those expereinces - but they should NEVER be used as a substitute for the personal, life transforming encounters of the divine. What did Jesus say - 'Go set a new religion' or 'The kingdom of God is within you'?

Mark

I agree with you. I feel spirituality is the interior life of our experience and relationship with the divine. The church is external, but can serve by pointing inward and assisting one on the spiritual journey to the soul.

[AllInTheNameOfProgress]

In some ways, I think the church is just waking up to the fact that much of what we have been traditionally doing has not supported people's faith journeys in a meaningful, "real" way.

[soma]

AllInTheNameOfProgress, on 06 August 2009 - 01:03 AM, said:

In some ways, I think the church is just waking up to the fact that much of what we have been traditionally doing has not supported people's faith journeys in a meaningful, "real" way.

I think the churches are waking up because nobody goes. If the Spirit was present they wouldn't have to advertise to get followers. They concentrate on the comforts, carpet, climate control and benefits of Christianity, but have forgotten the interior life. I hope they become centers for momentum on the spiritual journey.

[JosephM]

soma, on 06 August 2009 - 01:40 PM, said:

(snip)

I hope they become centers for momentum on the spiritual journey.

Soma, What a wonderfully put expression.

Joseph