[minsocal]

Evangelical leaders say they are bewildered and stunned by the Rev. Rick Warren's apparent turnaround on gay marriage after the famous California pastor said earlier this week that he was not a proponent of California's Proposition 8.

Mr. Warren told CNN's Larry King on Monday that he "never once even gave an endorsement" of the proposition, which said marriage in the state could only involve one man and one woman. The measure won at the polls last November by a close margin, in effect negating an earlier California Supreme Court ruling allowing gay marriages.

Proponents of the proposition had gathered from earlier comments that Mr. Warren stood with them on the issue, and they reacted vigorously to his CNN interview.

"I was extremely troubled by the way he appeared to be so anxious to distance himself from the same-sex issue and to make clear he was not an 'activist' and that he'd only addressed the issue in a very minor way," said the Rev. Al Mohler, president of the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary in Louisville, Ky.

Wendy Wright, president of Concerned Women for America, said his denial is "absolutely baffling."

"Whether he supports Proposition 8 now, after the fact, is overshadowed by the bizarre claim that he did not say what the evidence so clearly proves he said."

What Mr. Warren said he did do was send out a video to his 22,000-member church explaining his position the week before Proposition 8 went before state voters on Nov. 4.

"Now let me say this really clearly: We support Proposition 8," he said on the video, "and if you believe what the Bible says about marriage, you need to support Proposition 8. I never support a candidate, but on moral issues, I come out very clear."

In his conversation with Mr. King, Mr. Warren said, "All of a sudden out of it, [opponents] made me something that I really wasn't. And I actually — there were a number of things that were put out. I wrote to all my gay friends — the leaders that I knew — and actually apologized to them. That never got out."

Named in 2005 by Time magazine as one of America's top 25 evangelicals and dubbed by some as "the next Billy Graham," Mr. Warren soared to nationwide prominence last August when he hosted a TV debate between presidential candidates Barack Obama and John McCain.

He was placed even more in the spotlight when newly elected President Obama announced that Mr. Warren would deliver the opening prayer at his inauguration. Gay activists condemned the selection chiefly because of the pastor's apparent support of Proposition 8.

At the time, the Human Rights Campaign, the nation's largest gay rights organization, cited Mr. Warren's opposition to gay marriage as a sign of intolerance.

"We feel a deep level of disrespect when one of the architects and promoters of an anti-gay agenda is given the prominence and the pulpit of your historic nomination," the group said in a letter to Obama, asking him to reconsider.

http://washingtontim...s/?xid=rss-page

[October's Autumn]

I'd preferred that he came out and said he changed his position... but I'm hoping this means he will become an actual supporter of gay marriage! That would be great!

[minsocal]

October, on Apr 12 2009, 07:31 AM, said:

I'd preferred that he came out and said he changed his position... but I'm hoping this means he will become an actual supporter of gay marriage! That would be great!

I have tried to state, so many times, that this is Southern California. A haven for conservatives and fundamentalists. It is something of a competion here to see who can attract the most followers (sheep).

I have also stated that the evangelical movement has reached a crossroads. They can follow the radical egalitartianism of Jesus or ... tell me what?

That is as simple as I can make it.

Jesus had a message ... or ... Jesus did not. Simple.

[grampawombat]

Well, this is the first I heard of it. Maybe someone he knows and cares about came out. Stranger things have happened. I don't know whether to feel baffled or heartened. Maybe a little of both.

This post has been edited by grampawombat: 13 April 2009 - 02:25 PM

[October's Autumn]

I read the actual article and I wouldn't exactly call it a reversal. He basically said gay marriage isn't high on his priority list. Apparently he sent a top 5 non-negotiables to his congregation and gay marriage was on the list. So perhaps it is number 5?

[October's Autumn]

minsocal, on Apr 12 2009, 02:39 PM, said:

I have tried to state, so many times, that this is Southern California. A haven for conservatives and fundamentalists. It is something of a competion here to see who can attract the most followers (sheep).

I have also stated that the evangelical movement has reached a crossroads. They can follow the radical egalitartianism of Jesus or ... tell me what?

That is as simple as I can make it.

Jesus had a message ... or ... Jesus did not. Simple.

I'm not really sure what you are trying to say here.

[soma]

I hope he is strong enough to follow the radical message of The Christ State of Mind and use his political instincts to bring others with him and not the reversal, which is to follow the political instinct instead of the Christ State of Mind.

[minsocal]

Evangelicals are in a state of flux. The political background has changed and we will see how they respond. Their anti-gay stance has no basis in the Bible. They know that, I suspect. Their stance has to do with making this "a Christian nation" of their own definition. I heard this proclaimed in several churches almost 40 years ago. I suspect that Warren is having second thoughts about what it means to be Christian and not the head of a conservative (and rich) mega-church. After all, Jesus was made a scapegoat, gays have been made a scapegoat, and so on. Jesus did not found a rich mega-church ... just teke the logic through the history. Ask basic questions. Number one: Did Jesus scapegoat anyone? Answer: No.