[MOW]

I want to say at the outset that I have never had a supernatural or mystical experiece. I have had ,what some would say , are miracles i.e. walking away from an accident in which my car was totalled without so much as a scratch. But I have never had a supernatural experience as such.

One of my friends ,who is a computer professional. swears that a long dead friend visited them while they were in the hospital. Other people I know , have reported such experiences.

Has anyone here ever had a mystical or supernatural experience?


MOW

This post has been edited by MOW: 04 April 2009 - 07:26 PM

[JosephM]

MOW, on Apr 4 2009, 08:23 PM, said:

I want to say at the outset that I have never had a supernatural or mystical experiece. I have had ,what some would say , are miracles i.e. walking away from an accident in which my car was totalled without so much as a scratch. But I have never had a supernatural experience as such.

One of my friends ,who is a computer professional. swears that a long dead friend visited them while they were in the hospital. Other people I know , have reported such experiences.

Has anyone here ever had a mystical or supernatural experience?
MOW

Hi Mow,

My parents told me I was born a blue baby, whatever that meant and I had to be operated on. (Over 60 years ago) I walked away from an air to air collision in the 70's in an airplane and also from an engine loss in a single engine airplane in a storm also without a scratch. Very poor judgement on my part brought about these accidents in the first place yet I was spared from both and experienced utter peace and calm in the face of a possible imminent death in the storm while piloting with 3 other people aboard including my wife. No one was hurt.

Mystical experiences included a visit from the dead, out of body experience, lucid dreaming, visions, and numerous occasions of "knowing" and experiencing oneness with God.

No drugs. Not even aspirin....

[minsocal]

MOW, on Apr 4 2009, 04:23 PM, said:

I want to say at the outset that I have never had a supernatural or mystical experiece. I have had ,what some would say , are miracles i.e. walking away from an accident in which my car was totalled without so much as a scratch. But I have never had a supernatural experience as such.

One of my friends ,who is a computer professional. swears that a long dead friend visited them while they were in the hospital. Other people I know , have reported such experiences.

Has anyone here ever had a mystical or supernatural experience?
MOW

As I look back at it, perhaps. I have to ask whether "mystical" is defined by the individual or collectively? This question bothered me a great deal on other threads and I don't have the answer yet, only the question. If a person claims to have had a mystical experience who could possibly know otherwise? Questions such as this have lured me back into dialogue here.

All the best,

minsocal

[David]

minsocal, on Apr 5 2009, 09:10 AM, said:

If a person claims to have had a mystical experience who could possibly know otherwise?

Jung described a mystical experience that he had that was very significant for him. He says that “It is impossible to convey the beauty and intensity of emotion during these visions. They were the most tremendous things I have ever experienced”. He says that these experiences were “utterly real; there was nothing subjective about them; they all had a quality of absolute objectivity”. He says this was experienced “high up in space…later on I discovered how high in space one would have to be to have so extensive a view—approximately a thousand miles! The sight of the earth from this height was the most glorious thing I have ever seen”.

I am absolutely convinced about the “reality” of mystical experience based upon my experience and the testimonies of others. But some caution is necessary. In the mystical experience the divide between subjective and objective becomes hazy at best. It also is apparent that it is impossible for the person who had the experience to describe what happened in terms that language will contain. That does not mean “If a person claims to have had a mystical experience who could possibly know otherwise?”. Jung would not claim that he actually physically left the earth and acted like a spaceship. So if someone had an experience and claimed that they were a spaceship then we could “know otherwise”. Caution is needed when a person claims that the experience was physical (in the sense that it could be observed by a bystander) or that the experience can be accurately and fully described by words. And so “who could possibly know otherwise” is a proper response to Jung with some caution understood.

This post has been edited by David: 05 April 2009 - 12:27 PM

[minsocal]

David, on Apr 5 2009, 09:22 AM, said:

Jung described a mystical experience that he had that was very significant for him. He says that “It is impossible to convey the beauty and intensity of emotion during these visions. They were the most tremendous things I have ever experienced”. He says that these experiences were “utterly real; there was nothing subjective about them; they all had a quality of absolute objectivity”. He says this was experienced “high up in space…later on I discovered how high in space one would have to be to have so extensive a view—approximately a thousand miles! The sight of the earth from this height was the most glorious thing I have ever seen”.

I am absolutely convinced about the “reality” of mystical experience based upon my experience and the testimonies of others. But some caution is necessary. In the mystical experience the divide between subjective and objective becomes hazy at best. It also is apparent that it is impossible for the person who had the experience to describe what happened in terms that language will contain. That does not mean “If a person claims to have had a mystical experience who could possibly know otherwise?”. Jung would not claim that he actually physically left the earth and acted like a spaceship. So if someone had an experience and claimed that they were a spaceship then we could “know otherwise”. Caution is needed when a person claims that the experience was physical (in the sense that it could be observed by a bystander) or that the experience can be accurately and fully described by words. And so “who could possibly know otherwise” is a proper response to Jung with some caution understood.

Jung began his work with patients making all sorts of claims we would never take to be literally true. With training, he learned how to communicate with his patients on their level. This was crucial to the development of his later theory. This early experience placed Jung at odds with Freud and led to their going separate ways.

Now, a person claims to have been abducted by alien beings. OK. Science demands that the possibilty, however small, must be recognized. That's science. But for Jung, that is not even the point. Just ask the question ... what is the person actually expressing in the context of their current capacities? Draw the arrow of cause and effect in both directions BEFORE reaching a conclusion.

This post has been edited by minsocal: 05 April 2009 - 01:19 PM

[David]

MOW, on Apr 4 2009, 05:23 PM, said:

I want to say at the outset that I have never had a supernatural or mystical experiece. I have had ,what some would say , are miracles i.e. walking away from an accident in which my car was totalled without so much as a scratch. But I have never had a supernatural experience as such.

One of my friends ,who is a computer professional. swears that a long dead friend visited them while they were in the hospital. Other people I know , have reported such experiences.

Has anyone here ever had a mystical or supernatural experience?
MOW

I would like to suggest that there is a difference between mystical experience and miracles. I do not think that Jesus walked upon water. I do think that Jesus had mystical experiences.

[fatherman]

I've had a number of mystical experiences over the years. Here's what I believe about them.

I believe that all life has both a physical and a spiritual nature. When you become in tune with the spiritual nature of life, you are having a mystical experience. Some are ordinary. Some are extraordinary. They are real, but when they are over, they feel like the memory of a dream. They are over when you place your consciousness back on the physical nature of life...which is necessary. I believe it's possible to be simultaneously aware of both physical and spiritual nature. This is a state of enlightenment.

So, how do you become "in tune"? Many different ways.

Most of the time it's out of our control. It seems random. It just happens. Something powerful throws our spiritual switch (so to speak).

1.) A powerful event. A trauma. A tremendous act of love. A death. A birth. A musical performance. I call these a sacrament.
2.) A powerful place. Undisturbed nature. A church. A place where a powerful event occurred. I call this a sanctuary.
3.) In the company of highly spiritual people. When your switch is thrown, my switch might respond. These people are teachers, prophets, healers, or just friends. It's communion.

With practice, you can throw the switch yourself. Certain activities engage the spiritual self deeply enough that the switch will occur. I would break these into two categories: sympathetically spiritual and directly spiritual.

1.) Sympathetic. The activity is physical, but it often sparks a spiritual response. Singing, gardening, painting, dance, yoga, sex. These are things that don't just happen to you. These are activities you choose to do. Do them often!

2.) Direct. This is a primarily spiritual activity. Prayer. Meditation. Yoga. Being in the moment. The lines are a little blurry, but some activities are entirely spiritual in nature. You are directly engaging the spiritual self as a means unto itself. Once you are there, you might have a more specific intent....insight, wisdom, peace, love, or simply being.

[minsocal]

fatherman, on May 6 2009, 05:06 AM, said:

I've had a number of mystical experiences over the years. Here's what I believe about them.

I believe that all life has both a physical and a spiritual nature. When you become in tune with the spiritual nature of life, you are having a mystical experience. Some are ordinary. Some are extraordinary. They are real, but when they are over, they feel like the memory of a dream. They are over when you place your consciousness back on the physical nature of life...which is necessary. I believe it's possible to be simultaneously aware of both physical and spiritual nature. This is a state of enlightenment.

So, how do you become "in tune"? Many different ways.

Most of the time it's out of our control. It seems random. It just happens. Something powerful throws our spiritual switch (so to speak).

1.) A powerful event. A trauma. A tremendous act of love. A death. A birth. A musical performance. I call these a sacrament.
2.) A powerful place. Undisturbed nature. A church. A place where a powerful event occurred. I call this a sanctuary.
3.) In the company of highly spiritual people. When your switch is thrown, my switch might respond. These people are teachers, prophets, healers, or just friends. It's communion.

With practice, you can throw the switch yourself. Certain activities engage the spiritual self deeply enough that the switch will occur. I would break these into two categories: sympathetically spiritual and directly spiritual.

1.) Sympathetic. The activity is physical, but it often sparks a spiritual response. Singing, gardening, painting, dance, yoga, sex. These are things that don't just happen to you. These are activities you choose to do. Do them often!

2.) Direct. This is a primarily spiritual activity. Prayer. Meditation. Yoga. Being in the moment. The lines are a little blurry, but some activities are entirely spiritual in nature. You are directly engaging the spiritual self as a means unto itself. Once you are there, you might have a more specific intent....insight, wisdom, peace, love, or simply being.

Odd how these things work out. Yesterday I reached a point in my life where past trauma and the the sense of who I am collided abruptly. In a short period of time I reached conclusions very similar to what you have posted, the most important being "the company of highly spiritual people"!!! That your post is so close to the words I have been trying to find and matched to what was a crisis in my life yesterday ... well, there it is. Wow!

[JosephM]

Great post fatherman,

It all witnesses with my experience also.

Joseph

[Seeker4Ever]

I was working the evening shift during a snow storm several years ago. I kept asking my supervisor let me leave because I was worried that my Mom was ill & I may not be able to get home to her. He refused. By the time my shift was over it was at the height of the storm. My old Chevy did not have front wheel drive and the ride home was treacherous. A normal 15 minute ride took me an hour and a half. As I got to the steep hill at our condo complex, I started to climb but my car got stuck halfway. I couldn't go forward & I couldn't back up because of the lack of visibility. I spun my tires for several minutes & just as I decided I'd have to leave the car there blocking the driveway I felt my car being propelled forward. I heard a voice calling, "keep giving it the gas, I'll get you up the drive!" Before I knew it, I was safe in my parking space in front of my condo. I stepped out of the car and this very young, very slight young man in army fatigues smiled at me. I thanked him over and over and asked him if he'd like some hot chocolate. He refused saying he had to go and that others needed his help. I leaned over to grab my bag from the car and when I looked up he was gone. I looked all around, but he had disappeared into thin air. I walked through the snow to the back of my car, and all I saw were the marks left from my tires--no footprints anywhere. I didn't immediately recognize the miracle. Only after I had tended to my Mom that night the wonder of it hit me, fully. I know God knew I needed to be home for my mother and He certainly sent an angel my way. No other explanation is possible.

"For those who believe in God, no explanation is necessary. For those who do not believe in God, no explanation is possible"
Song of Bernadette

[fatherman]

JosephM, on May 6 2009, 12:58 PM, said:

Great post fatherman,

It all witnesses with my experience also.

Joseph

Thank you Joseph! And no doubt it does.

[fatherman]

Seeker4Ever, on May 6 2009, 06:31 PM, said:

I was working the evening shift during a snow storm several years ago. I kept asking my supervisor let me leave because I was worried that my Mom was ill & I may not be able to get home to her. He refused. By the time my shift was over it was at the height of the storm. My old Chevy did not have front wheel drive and the ride home was treacherous. A normal 15 minute ride took me an hour and a half. As I got to the steep hill at our condo complex, I started to climb but my car got stuck halfway. I couldn't go forward & I couldn't back up because of the lack of visibility. I spun my tires for several minutes & just as I decided I'd have to leave the car there blocking the driveway I felt my car being propelled forward. I heard a voice calling, "keep giving it the gas, I'll get you up the drive!" Before I knew it, I was safe in my parking space in front of my condo. I stepped out of the car and this very young, very slight young man in army fatigues smiled at me. I thanked him over and over and asked him if he'd like some hot chocolate. He refused saying he had to go and that others needed his help. I leaned over to grab my bag from the car and when I looked up he was gone. I looked all around, but he had disappeared into thin air. I walked through the snow to the back of my car, and all I saw were the marks left from my tires--no footprints anywhere. I didn't immediately recognize the miracle. Only after I had tended to my Mom that night the wonder of it hit me, fully. I know God knew I needed to be home for my mother and He certainly sent an angel my way. No other explanation is possible.

"For those who believe in God, no explanation is necessary. For those who do not believe in God, no explanation is possible"
Song of Bernadette

Thank you for sharing this story, Seeker4Ever. It's a powerful witness.

[McKenna]

Seeker4Ever, on May 6 2009, 07:31 PM, said:

I was working the evening shift during a snow storm several years ago. I kept asking my supervisor let me leave because I was worried that my Mom was ill & I may not be able to get home to her. He refused. By the time my shift was over it was at the height of the storm. My old Chevy did not have front wheel drive and the ride home was treacherous. A normal 15 minute ride took me an hour and a half. As I got to the steep hill at our condo complex, I started to climb but my car got stuck halfway. I couldn't go forward & I couldn't back up because of the lack of visibility. I spun my tires for several minutes & just as I decided I'd have to leave the car there blocking the driveway I felt my car being propelled forward. I heard a voice calling, "keep giving it the gas, I'll get you up the drive!" Before I knew it, I was safe in my parking space in front of my condo. I stepped out of the car and this very young, very slight young man in army fatigues smiled at me. I thanked him over and over and asked him if he'd like some hot chocolate. He refused saying he had to go and that others needed his help. I leaned over to grab my bag from the car and when I looked up he was gone. I looked all around, but he had disappeared into thin air. I walked through the snow to the back of my car, and all I saw were the marks left from my tires--no footprints anywhere. I didn't immediately recognize the miracle. Only after I had tended to my Mom that night the wonder of it hit me, fully. I know God knew I needed to be home for my mother and He certainly sent an angel my way. No other explanation is possible.

"For those who believe in God, no explanation is necessary. For those who do not believe in God, no explanation is possible"
Song of Bernadette

Thanks for sharing this! I must admit I've always been skeptical of this sort of story but you've inspired me to keep my mind more open

[AllInTheNameOfProgress]

To me, that story would have been miraculous, even if there had been footprints in the snow.

[sonoman]

I went for 35 years with only one spiritual experience I could remember and that one was a fairly momentary event in which I felt, really deeply felt, an overwhelming compassion for humanity. Because it wasn't recognizably "religious" it didn't alter my ongoing more or less atheistic mindset that valued science and reason above any so-called mystical experiences. Then, "out of nowhere" as they say and it was true for me, at Easter in 1979 God put me through a three day crash course in spiritual reality. I had my own Damascus experience and like Paul, I too came away with completely turned about face regarding God and the spiritual world and the meaning of Christ and Christianity. I experienced what I am convinced is that state of mind known to Hindus and Buddhists as "maya", a state of mind in which our world becomes revealed as an illusion, as a grand Play wherein we play out archetypal predetermined Scripted roles as we evolve together towards a higher state of being. For three solid days I experienced non-stop synchronicity events, one right after the other, to the point that by the end of the third day I "knew" the Script well enough to predict what would come out of the mouths of my family and friends before they said anything. This was my memory at the time but because I wasn't in "normal" consciousness then and took no thought of recording what was happening at the time, when I did write it down about a month later I could only record the most major concepts that came to me during those three days. What I do know for sure is that God set me on a course of prophesy bearing that never really changed direction, only became more and more detailed in fulfilling the primary "themes" that I received from God then. Since that original religious conversion experience I have periodically received many spiritual visions and revelations, enough so that after 30 years I've produced essentially a new Christian theology, one that is "gnostic" in the sense it reveals hidden knowledge with Scriptures but like Jung's Gnosticism, it does not fit within the classical Gnostic systems but goes a different way, a much different way.

[JosephM]

Very interesting sonoman,

Thanks for sharing. Personally I can witness with all of what you said.

Joseph

[minsocal]

sonoman, on May 16 2009, 08:14 PM, said:

I went for 35 years with only one spiritual experience I could remember and that one was a fairly momentary event in which I felt, really deeply felt, an overwhelming compassion for humanity. Because it wasn't recognizably "religious" it didn't alter my ongoing more or less atheistic mindset that valued science and reason above any so-called mystical experiences. Then, "out of nowhere" as they say and it was true for me, at Easter in 1979 God put me through a three day crash course in spiritual reality. I had my own Damascus experience and like Paul, I too came away with completely turned about face regarding God and the spiritual world and the meaning of Christ and Christianity. I experienced what I am convinced is that state of mind known to Hindus and Buddhists as "maya", a state of mind in which our world becomes revealed as an illusion, as a grand Play wherein we play out archetypal predetermined Scripted roles as we evolve together towards a higher state of being. For three solid days I experienced non-stop synchronicity events, one right after the other, to the point that by the end of the third day I "knew" the Script well enough to predict what would come out of the mouths of my family and friends before they said anything. This was my memory at the time but because I wasn't in "normal" consciousness then and took no thought of recording what was happening at the time, when I did write it down about a month later I could only record the most major concepts that came to me during those three days. What I do know for sure is that God set me on a course of prophesy bearing that never really changed direction, only became more and more detailed in fulfilling the primary "themes" that I received from God then. Since that original religious conversion experience I have periodically received many spiritual visions and revelations, enough so that after 30 years I've produced essentially a new Christian theology, one that is "gnostic" in the sense it reveals hidden knowledge with Scriptures but like Jung's Gnosticism, it does not fit within the classical Gnostic systems but goes a different way, a much different way.

Abraham Maslow studied the brief experiences which he came to call "peak experiences". One of the defining characteristics is a "feeling of oceanic oneness with everthing." Carl Jung studied archetypes and synchronicity. You describe both very well. I am also quite familiar with Jung's Gnosticism as I have most of what he wrote on the subject. Although the terms are different, current research in psychology is tending to prove that Jung was right about archetypes. Reasercher Paul Valent, a Holocaust survivor, has produced a detailed analysis of eight "themes" he believes are innate and common to us all. He even says that as these themes move into the higher levels of consciousness they "become more and more spiritual".

Once again, welcome!

[McKenna]

sonoman, on May 16 2009, 11:14 PM, said:

I went for 35 years with only one spiritual experience I could remember and that one was a fairly momentary event in which I felt, really deeply felt, an overwhelming compassion for humanity. Because it wasn't recognizably "religious" it didn't alter my ongoing more or less atheistic mindset that valued science and reason above any so-called mystical experiences. Then, "out of nowhere" as they say and it was true for me, at Easter in 1979 God put me through a three day crash course in spiritual reality. I had my own Damascus experience and like Paul, I too came away with completely turned about face regarding God and the spiritual world and the meaning of Christ and Christianity. I experienced what I am convinced is that state of mind known to Hindus and Buddhists as "maya", a state of mind in which our world becomes revealed as an illusion, as a grand Play wherein we play out archetypal predetermined Scripted roles as we evolve together towards a higher state of being. For three solid days I experienced non-stop synchronicity events, one right after the other, to the point that by the end of the third day I "knew" the Script well enough to predict what would come out of the mouths of my family and friends before they said anything. This was my memory at the time but because I wasn't in "normal" consciousness then and took no thought of recording what was happening at the time, when I did write it down about a month later I could only record the most major concepts that came to me during those three days. What I do know for sure is that God set me on a course of prophesy bearing that never really changed direction, only became more and more detailed in fulfilling the primary "themes" that I received from God then. Since that original religious conversion experience I have periodically received many spiritual visions and revelations, enough so that after 30 years I've produced essentially a new Christian theology, one that is "gnostic" in the sense it reveals hidden knowledge with Scriptures but like Jung's Gnosticism, it does not fit within the classical Gnostic systems but goes a different way, a much different way.

Very cool! As I hinted at above, I tend to have a more skeptical nature (though it changes day-to-day ) but I try to keep an open mind and I can't wait to hear more about this new theology of yours!