[billmc]

What does it cost to be a disciple of Jesus today? Is it the same cost that the disciples paid in Jesus' day? Is it the same cost that the early church paid?

I've wondered about this question most of my life. In evangelical terms, I was saved when I was 12 years old. The "cost" of being a disciple at that time was 1) believing in the death and resurrection of Jesus and 2) giving my life to him in order for him to do with me what he will.

The problem is, neither of these "cost" match the cost that Jesus' disciples paid. According to the gospels, they initially had to leave their vocations and families in order to be one of his disciples. Is this cost still necessary today? Does Jesus call us to leave our loved ones and jobs in order to be his disciples?

Another cost that Jesus laid down was for the rich to sell everything they had and to give the money to the poor. The early church (described in the book of Acts) did just this. They sold their posessions and distributed the money so that, according to the text, there was no one needy among them. I have never, NEVER seen this done in any church that I have attended. Most Christians that I know don't tithe, let alone sell everything they have and give the money to the poor.

Another cost that I will mention is the cost of martyrdom. If Christian history is correct, all the disciples, except for John, died for following Jesus. Is this cost still applicable today? If we read the Faith Chapter of Hebrews (12, I think), we see many people who died for their faith.

I'm now almost 50. In a very general sense, I know that the cost of following Christ is loving God and loving others. But I am sorta clueless as to the specifics of HOW this cost is lived out. Is the cost handling snakes, drinking poison, and raising the dead? I've done none of those, except for maybe picking up a garter snake and drinking coffee. Oh, I do get my adolescent daughter out of bed which might qualify.

I never been in any church where the specifics of the cost of following Jesus were made known. Altar calls are usually focused on repentance, confession, and surrender. Good things, I'm sure. But I have never heard an altar call where potential Christians were told that they would need to sell what they have, give the money to the poor, leave their jobs and family, and possibly give up their very lives in order to follow Jesus. Have you?

What does it mean to follow Jesus in the 21st century? Should we go by the criteria that Jesus laid down in the 1st century? Or do we take a "kindler, gentler" approach? What does it mean to carry one's cross in our culture? What is the minimum cost that must be paid if we want to call ourselves disciples of Christ?

[soma]

The love of Christ presents man’s spirit with an intuitive understanding that the mysteries of faith can be brought into existence and appreciated. These mysteries are given to us to be mastered, and they seek understanding, not only in reflection, but also in prayer and contemplation. God is everything, which we try to represent for the intellect and is infinitely more so we pass from philosophical understanding to faith, and then we pass from faith to spiritual understanding. Spiritual understanding is an intensification of faith transforming it into a vision and an experience. This spiritual vision has a cost and I feel it is accomplished by sacrificing the personal ego into total submission, a moment where we give ourselves totally to God. Ego is a kind of anxiety that ties the spirit down to the physical plane and allows no enlargement of consciousness. Thanks to the death and sacrifice of Jesus and his physical form, we can achieve wonderful spiritual heights. Jesus by his grace died for us and then rose again spiritually to resurrect our consciousness from our egos.

[AllInTheNameOfProgress]

"What does it cost to be a disciple of Jesus today? Is it the same cost that the disciples paid in Jesus' day? Is it the same cost that the early church paid?"

Since Jesus called for a shift in the way we think about the world, I would say the cost is that we have to really work to love our enemies, to be humble, putting others first, etc. I have found that sometimes I feel compelled to learn new skills or do things I wouldn't choose for myself because I feel God "calling" me to do them. The world is no longer about ME. Giving up old patterns of behavior that are destructive feels like a price when you're going through it, but it ends up being a reward.

[billmc]

AllInTheNameOfProgress, on Aug 15 2008, 06:36 PM, said:

The world is no longer about ME.

I think that is great insight, AITNOP. Although I don't recall the exact date, I do remember the day that my eyes were opened and I saw how selfish conservative Christianity was. It was all about ME:

1. MY salvation
2. MY sins
3. MY destiny
4. MY relationship with God
5. MY theology
6. MY church
7. MY bible preference
8. MY gifts
9. MY sanctification

My whole journey, up to that point, had been about me and what God could do for me. In fact, the invitational call of conservative Christianity is about a "personal" savior, sort of like a "personal" computer.

I agree that we may not be called upon by God to leave our families, jobs, and cultures. We may not have to sell everything we own and give our money to the poor. But we are called upon to lead a sacrificial life for the sake of others. That call has never been recinded. I think Jesus' invitation to deny ourselves and take up our crosses still applies. We still lay down our lives. And it is in doing this that we find true life, eternal life.

I can't begin to count the number of altar calls I've heard that invite people to come forward to see what God will do for THEM. But I can count on one hand the number of sermons I've heard where the preacher says, "Following Jesus will cost you EVERYTHING."

[AllInTheNameOfProgress]

I just logged in today after a while away, and your reply made me smile! God never promised his followers the easy life, but in my personal experience living for God and loving others as God commanded, even if it is very difficult, is the most rewarding way to live.

[rivanna]

Fred Plumer’s blog on the tcpc website:

“Have you noticed what an amazing time in history we are all living? I am not referring just to the fact that we elected our first non-Caucasian individual to the office of Presidency, although I do think that is a reflection of the shift. I suspect that we are now going to have to go through a painful period of withdrawal. I know of few social commentators or economists, who believe that things are going to go back to the way they were. Being the eternal optimist that I am, I see a silver lining in all of this. I have heard more and more people talking about what is really important in their lives and coming to some very different conclusions than they might have a year ago. Somehow all of this chaos got our attention. It woke us up, in a sense, and will continue to wake us up for some time to come. Maybe we have broken our addiction to consumerism and will have more time to meet our neighbors and find out how they are doing. Maybe we will be more sensitive to the plight of others and we will begin to take action, both politically as well as personally. Just maybe we will discover that the real purpose of Christmas is birthing the Christ that is always within us.”

Sometimes I think God made us able to conceive of Jesus’ teachings – but unable to follow them, ultimately – the spirit is willing, the flesh is weak – producing and consuming is our programming, if not our basic human nature. Did God give us enough wisdom or strength to coexist peacefully, constructively? or only to talk about it, argue about it?

[AllInTheNameOfProgress]

I firmly believe God wants us to try to live up to the teachings (yes, even love your enemies) because it teaches us and causes us to grow. Giving up because the flesh is weak is not an option for me. I'm feeling weepy and vulnerable today, so it probably won't be my best morning ever for loving others, but I'm still here trying...

[rivanna]

Yes, you make a good point.

It just seems overwhelming sometimes, all the areas that desperately need improving in this country alone--financial institutions, health care systems, the environment, the endless “war” on terrorism. I’ve been down about some things this month also--my older son was laid off from his job, my brother’s cancer has returned, my mother was ripped off by an insurance company….anyway, sorry if I sounded negative.

[McKenna]

rivanna, on Dec 15 2008, 03:55 PM, said:

Yes, you make a good point.

It just seems overwhelming sometimes, all the areas that desperately need improving in this country alone--financial institutions, health care systems, the environment, the endless “war” on terrorism. I’ve been down about some things this month also--my older son was laid off from his job, my brother’s cancer has returned, my mother was ripped off by an insurance company….anyway, sorry if I sounded negative.

I'm terribly sorry to hear about your month! Especially about your brother... I hope your holiday season goes better - merry Christmas!

I can understand the point of view that it seems impossible to attain those lofty goals we set for ourselves. In fact, I agree. I don't think humanity will ever reach a state of complete peace, love, and happiness (not in this world anyway), just simply due to human nature - not just our natural selfish impulses, but also our constant desire, as a group, for improvement. I don't think we'd ever be satisfied, we'd always want more, there would always be something we'd want to fix or improve or whatever. If that makes sense.

Regardless, I agree with AITNOP all the same. I don't think we should set our sights on those goals with the assumption that we'll actually be able to reach them; I think that's naive and probably only leads to disappointment. But to face each day with the goal of making the world just a little bit better, and doing the same for ourselves - that attitude adjustment can really make a huge difference. And I don't think doing God's work in the world is ever in vain, even if it won't ultimately get anywhere, simply because I buy into the old saying that it's not the destination that's important, but the journey.

[rivanna]

McKenna,

Thanks for your sympathy. It’s good to see other women posting on this board.
I agree that attitude is more important than achieving results, though like many of us in this culture I was programmed in the opposite direction, taught to value doing more than being. We’re not always able to cure, but we can always care.

[AllInTheNameOfProgress]

Rivanna,
It's been a tough year for many I am close to, and I suffer along with them. I have felt like a failure for not being able to "fix" their problems, but it probably would have given me a savior complex if I had. Your words and McKenna's were very helpful!

Thanks,
Janet

[rivanna]

AITNOP,

Thanks for your kind words. As you said -it is a constant challenge to be thoughtful of others’ needs and feelings – but always worth it.
This month I gave up a part time job I liked, when the owner was hit hard by recession. It hurts to feel more isolated - but a small price to pay in comparison with what others are going through these days.

[DHAWLIA]

I think the cost requires our very lives. It requires us to bury the old man, and to be recreated in the likeness of Christ. It requires a genuine care and concern for those we share our world with. It requires that we not only love others in heart, but that we show that love by our actions. We don't have to quit our jobs to do this, but I think we DO need to realize that life isn't just about "Me", but also those we share this world with. It means we need to reach out and help to make a difference (a very real and positive difference) in the lives of others.

That is our duty as disciples, but it 'should' also be our honor to further His vision for the human race. (to love others as we love ourselves). This is not an idle command, nor should it be stale, but rather a very real and daily part of our existence ... to simply help those who need help. Love is action. What good is love if it is not shown?

GK