[soma]

Those who have not realized the differences between the concerns with true value and the affairs that are insignificant often invert their interest, giving the greatest value to the things that are worthless. A developed person will see the genuine value of his affairs and will know what is good and what is bad in his life. He or she will be charitable because he will see good and bad in all people and in all things. If a person has acted right, he has done well and will feel happy; misery lives after evil is finished. Corruption and temptation are in the lower layers of the mind where one misunderstands, fails and suffers for one's own stupidity. It is up to us to return to an honorable, happy, peaceful existence by correcting our human mistakes and entering the higher layers of our minds through a consciousness of unity.

[October's Autumn]

Interesting take. I absolutely disagree. But interesting, nonetheless.

[JosephM]

soma, on May 28 2007, 01:58 AM, said:

Those who have not realized the differences between the concerns with true value and the affairs that are insignificant often invert their interest, giving the greatest value to the things that are worthless. A developed person will see the genuine value of his affairs and will know what is good and what is bad in his life. He or she will be charitable because he will see good and bad in all people and in all things. If a person has acted right, he has done well and will feel happy; misery lives after evil is finished. Corruption and temptation are in the lower layers of the mind where one misunderstands, fails and suffers for one's own stupidity. It is up to us to return to an honorable, happy, peaceful existence by correcting our human mistakes and entering the higher layers of our minds through a consciousness of unity.

Hi Soma,

With the exception of having to Substitute the words 'wisdom' for 'good' and 'ignorance' for 'bad', I find great insight in your entire dialogue.

Love and Peace,
JM

[soma]

To add more fuel to the fire, I might add that the five layers of the mind come alive only when we patiently try to discover why and in what way they are meaningful to us as living individuals. The layers of the mind are like an onion. When we peal away one layer, there is another which is deeper than the first, and each successive layer is deeper than the one before it. The deeper the layer the more influence it has on the outer layers of the mind. The mind has five layers and an outer sheath that we call the body.

Psychologist study and label the mind to solve mental problems. They use terms such as consciouss, subconsciouss and unconsciousness.Teachers study the mind to understand the level of insight a child understands so they know how to teach them. I suggest we study and understand the mind so we can expand our mind and not be influenced thoughts that are not beneficial to spiritual growth.

[JosephM]

soma, on May 28 2007, 04:43 PM, said:

(snip)
The mind has five layers and an outer sheath that we call the body.

What are the 5 layers you speak of? And, do you really believe that the mind is located in the sheath we call the body?

JM

[McKenna]

JosephM, on May 28 2007, 04:57 PM, said:

What are the 5 layers you speak of? And, do you really believe that the mind is located in the sheath we call the body?

JM

I'm curious of this as well. I've heard of 4, but 5?

[soma]

McKenna, on May 28 2007, 07:54 PM, said:

I'm curious of this as well. I've heard of 4, but 5?

 800px_Maslow_27s_hierarchy_of_needs_svg.png (147.01K)
Number of downloads: 8

Greetings I tried to upload Maslow's pyramid. I think it is in the attachment.

 400px_Maslow_27s_hierarchy_of_needs_svg.png (56.23K)
Number of downloads: 4

[October's Autumn]

Those are the layers of mind you were talking about? I learned it as Maslow' Heirarchy of needs!

[soma]

October, on May 30 2007, 07:20 PM, said:

Those are the layers of mind you were talking about? I learned it as Maslow' Heirarchy of needs!

No, but they relate to the layers of the mind.

If the body is a vehicle for the planet earth it will need a driver. The driver is the first layer of the mind that we can call Everyday Mind. The Everyday Mind is the layer in charge during the waking hours of the day. Through the first layer we have conscious communication with all parts of our body and can respond to any sensation from the five senses. It directs the actions that are executed for example; my arm and hand reach for a pen only after a mental message is sent to the limbs to react and to obey. This is the layer that drives the vehicle of the body through the actions to be performed. Some of our bodily functions don't really need a conscious message to function because they are carried out automatically. We don't mentally have to tell our hearts to pump or our lungs to breath do we? They automatically do the required functions without being told, but they are influenced by our conscious thoughts. That is why we can lower our blood pressure and calm ourselves by mentally becoming aware of our condition and mentally directing internal relaxing messages to our restlessness. Thus, the Everyday Mind along with the second layer of the mind is also responsible for the automatic nervous system and its vital functions.

[McKenna]

soma, on May 30 2007, 05:20 PM, said:

Greetings I tried to upload Maslow's pyramid. I think it is in the attachment.

Ah. I was thinking about 4 layers of consciousness I'd read about somewhere...I think they were:
-Dreamless sleep/unconscious
-Dreaming
-Waking/everyday existence
-Some higher level that we can tap into occasionally, such as through meditation

I was reading about it in some book and the author went through each stage explaining what they entailed and how they were related. He basically argued that dreaming is to waking as waking is to the higher level. It was pretty interesting.

[soma]

[quote name='McKenna' date='May 30 2007, 08:35 PM' post='13046']
Ah. I was thinking about 4 layers of consciousness I'd read about somewhere...I think they were:
-Dreamless sleep/unconscious
-Dreaming
-Waking/everyday existence
-Some higher level that we can tap into occasionally, such as through meditation

There can any number of layers to the mind. It depends how you cut it. In my book I talk about 5 layers then I cut the mind a different way and talk about 4 parts. The number doesn't really mean anything except for organization. I hope that talking about attaining levels attracts the nitendo generation to not only achive higher levels on a tv screen, but within oneself.

The first layer of the mind drives, moves, arranges and orders movement. It freely coordinates our activities with our will so that when our will desires to walk, our legs are thrown simultaneously into the movement of walking and forward movement takes place. For an example, we can say that the first layers of our minds are the reins that drive and control the horses that pull a wagon. The horses are our desires and our isolated instincts such as hunger, self-preservation, fear and procreation. These desires are saddled in the mind, organs and glands of the body. The man holding the reins is the will. Undoubtedly the horses are restless and hard to control, but by getting a firm grip on the reins, they can be trained to go where we wish them to go. This training consists of a learning to be free from desire and an application of our own moral laws in the realm of the Everyday Mind. If this practice is consistent, it will help us to control our passions, emotions and also keep us in harmony with our fellow man. A man who cannot control this layer of the mind will find it very difficult to attain the next layer of the mind. The self-controlled man and woman can attain the second layer of the mind easily, if he or she tries hard and directs his or her energy with the right means.

I will slowly go through the 5 layers. Pleas ask questions about anything.

[soma]

After developing and controlling the mind with the application of moral laws, we proceeded to the second layer of the mind because the first layer works under the control of the second layer of the mind. The moral ideals that we choose are like the stars, we can't touch them with our hands because they are not to be manipulated, but we can choose them as our guides. Like the navigator on the seas if we follow our guidepost, we will reach our destiny. We have to master the beginning layers before reaching the more profound layers of the mind, which then dominate the preceding ones. The second layer of the mind obligates us to fight, not necessarily man against man, but against the internal forces that exist within us. This conflict goes on in everyone to the end of life. The negative forces must be mastered because they are the ones that tempt us and keep us down.

The second layer of the mind deals with contemplation and concentration. I will refer to it as the Computer Part of the mind because this is where all our data is stored of past experience. This inner part of the mind never forgets, not even the smallest detail of what has happened to it. It is the storehouse of memory and the headquarters for habit, instinct and emotion. Prior to development this layer works by a long-established pattern, which is a kind of race instinct, but if we are fortunate enough to develop this layer we can rise above our environmental demands. We can consciously change the habits formed in our unsophisticated years, if we reach understanding through the action of thought in the second layer. To utilize the information presented to the mind and conquer our outer condition we need to concentrate or make steady our thoughts. Our thoughts seem to want to jump from one thing to another, but if we learn with patient effort to bring them back to what we are thinking, we are then able to hold a thought for a certain period of time. When we can hold a thought, we are able to accomplish whatever our minds set out to do.

[soma]

The light of intuition puts an end to ignorance and brings a positive attitude to the mind because when we approach our problems in a positive way, they cease to be problems. A great inspiration is the third layer of the mind because this is where we can truly start to help the world. In the third layer our intuitive power brings us more happiness by bringing us closer to the divine light within. There can be no real enjoyment of life until we can see that everything is rejuvenated by pure consciousness. The intellect sees the substance of life that is seen and heard in the second layer, the physical world, but our intuition sees the essence of life that is invisible to the first two layers.
Now, we will proceed to the third layer of the mind or what I call Creative Intelligence. It is labeled Creative Intelligence because this is where artist and musicians come from when they connect with an idea to communicate to the masses. Scientist also reach this layer when they have a major break through or discovery, and both the artist and the scientist bring something into the world that is truly needed; an idea, theory or philosophy that carries us through times of stress or need, but we must recognize God's pure consciousness as the source.

[soma]

In our present society many people want to do good and not be bad, but most people can no longer discriminate good from bad, right from wrong, just from unjust, or true from false. They put everything on the same level because they have not developed the fourth layer of the mind called the Discriminate Mind. The application of privileges from this layer will not be for selfish use as it is in our present society, but will be quite balanced after having overcome the lower mind's rationalizations. The one who has reached this layer will not stoop for selfish purposes because his head will only bow in adoration and respect. When the sacred waters of love flow through the turbines of the fourth layer of the mind, the result is mental power and spiritual illumination.

The elevated beings who have reached the fourth layer of the mind are not members of any particular faith alone, but are spiritual aspirants from all faiths and denominations. The thing that distinguishes them from other people is their understanding of the nature of their souls and their knowledge. They obtain compassion for others and develop communion with everything in the all-pervading consciousness that surrounds us. Just as bees yearn for the nectar from various flowers, we should absorb the ideas from these varied men and women from all the different faiths to enable us to appreciate our own faith better.

The fourth layer enables one to discriminate and communicate with the soul, receiving a direct answer from it.
Jesus was able to communicate with God directly, which enabled him to be the Christ, a role model for all of us. Central to his concept of life was his belief in pure consciousness, which he called God, or the Heavenly Father. The Father or pure consciousness to which Jesus consciously talked and from which he received an explicit reply was located in his soul so he could discriminate where the Being of God began and where his own being ceased to be. He found God and the Kingdom of Heaven within himself by immersing himself below the material surface of creation and finding its cause. This Cause, he called God or God the Father Almighty.
Nearly two thousand years later Jesus is still pointing a way to pure happiness.
When the sun rises darkness as well as the troubles that accompany it disappear. Similarly for those who have realized the fourth layer, the illusions and misconceptions of the mind seem to disappear because delusion comes to only those people who have forgotten their source of power so it brings on self-conceit. This is the greatest factor in making people forget their basic source of truth, which is that there is only one God. Once conceit enters into the mind even if the higher layers have been realized, people can slip from the ideal and descend from the highest level in quick falls from understanding to understanding down to the very bottom of reason. Then one will find oneself physically, mentally and emotionally down in the dumps because the higher one ascends in evolution the farther one can fall.
The fall is an indication that one is letting his life be dictated by the circumstances outside. Pride, hypocrisy and selfishness force one outside the inner center, and they breed isms, hatreds and attachments that strain and put great pressure on the mind. As one cleanses the mind of thoughts hostile to the greater good and stays clear of self-centered actions for only selfish reasons, then abundance of creation can again start to fill every moment and the joys of life again well up inside that person. This person then experiences the Discriminate Layer of the mind again and will see no distinction between man and man for he will experience only unity, not diversity. The physical differences of color, race and creed are for this person only the marks of the outermost body because he sees everything as the unchanging Father, which is eternal and has no parts.

[soma]

The Fifth Layer Points to a Garden of Ecstasy
Each layer of the mind is not finality in itself, but a link in a long spiral ascent; therefore, even the more primitive layers of the mind are linked with the soul. The last layer in this ascension to the soul is the fifth layer of the mind or Selfless Mind. It is a great mistake to think that the fifth layer and the condition of being a saint depends on any definite religious belief or system. It doesn't even suggest a strict morality that is founded on the fear of God, a God that would take revenge and is prone to anger and harsh punishment. The peace and serenity found on the faces of the wise that have achieved Selfless Mind is built on the principle that being true to their path they are doing the will of the Father; they belong to all. This is the highest moral standard that keeps them free from any moral or mental corruption and any negative influence from others.
Cleansing the mind of negative thoughts, the feelings are indescribable as one advances and performs in the awareness of the saint within. Therefore, one should not deny the lowly ego it's highest entitlement, which is to dive now and again into this special air of the saint that we inwardly admire. The goodness is quiet, it does not flash, but progresses with the inner growth of the individual. It is a deep and simple quiet that cannot pass as rhetoric because it is made up of minute pieces that soon become forgotten charities. It may be felt through the touch of a hand, a friendly smile, a kind look or a heartfelt compliment.
As one tries to live as a noble individual and as free as the saint, gradually a wider more mature personality emerges until it becomes active and even visible to others. This process of growth, improvement, unfolding and development is possible for every individual even though the evolution of the fifth layer of the mind can't be brought about by a conscious effort or will power, but happens involuntarily and naturally. This consciousness evolves along with mental and spiritual harmony by learning from troubles because the mental and spiritual discord is so unpleasant. This is the highest wisdom because the ecstasy the ego feels comes from lying back and witnessing the material plane, not by direct action.
Jesus said, "Let Thy will be done.” When he asked the Father that His will be done, he was asking to be made a channel for His energy that the Father knew best what was good for his life. Ordinary people pray to have their desires gratified, something obtained or something accomplished, but in true love there is no place for I and mine. When the feelings of I and mine disappear from the mind, one has reached the fifth and last layer of the mind. This is Selfless Mind.

[McKenna]

Interesting stuff, soma!

soma, on Jun 13 2007, 06:03 PM, said:

Jesus said, "Let Thy will be done.” When he asked the Father that His will be done, he was asking to be made a channel for His energy that the Father knew best what was good for his life. Ordinary people pray to have their desires gratified, something obtained or something accomplished, but in true love there is no place for I and mine. When the feelings of I and mine disappear from the mind, one has reached the fifth and last layer of the mind. This is Selfless Mind.

I like this. I agree.

[soma]

Thank you, I love to talk about and find a million ways to talk about what words can't express.

[McKenna]

soma, on Jul 26 2007, 07:39 PM, said:

Thank you, I love to talk about and find a million ways to talk about what words can't express.

Amen to that

[canajan, eh?]

soma, on Jun 10 2007, 12:12 AM, said:

The physical differences of color, race and creed are for this person only the marks of the outermost body because he sees everything as the unchanging Father, which is eternal and has no parts.

I, Jesus, disagree with your interpretation most strenuously, Soma. The goal of the spiritual aspirant is not to eradicate the feelings of "I and mine" as you say above, nor to see God as the Father alone (i.e. Father without Mother), or as unchanging, or as having no parts. The goal of the spiritual aspirant is to understand and appreciate the extreme diversity of all angelic beings in the universe. The goal is not to be colour-blind; the goal is to be appreciative of colour differences. The goal is to see that God the Mother and God the Father made each soul different from all other souls, and that each soul is therefore beautiful in his/her own special way. The goal is to be able to comprehend the vast scale of Creation, to be able to make room in your heart to love not one vast, unchanging, divine being (whom you call the Father), but to love thousands, millions, nay trillions of unique individuals simultaneously. The goal is to grow your heart three sizes bigger (to quote Dr. Seuss in "How the Grinch Stole Christmas.")

God the Mother and God the Father are not unchanging. We are all changed by each other's experiences in this grand and beautiful universe we live in. Are you, as a human being, unchanged and untouched by the people around you? Are you unchanged and untouched by somebody else's poignant song? Somebody else's poignant loss? Somebody else's miraculous discovery? Could you possibly be the person you are if you hadn't been changed for the better by the loving people around you? Can you imagine that God the Mother and God the Father are any less touched and changed by our bravery? Our sacrifices? Our compassionate love of our brothers and sisters everywhere on Planet Earth? We are a family. We are a family of eternal angelic beings. When one cries, we all cry -- not because we are part of one big being who has no parts, but because we have empathy for our Mother, Father, brothers and sisters.

Selfishness (and God knows there's plenty of that on the planet) could be defined as the refusal of the human brain to cope with change, since the soul's willingness to change is at the centre of everything good a human culture can create.

And selfishness, I think we would all agree, does not a happy culture make.

Love Jesus
August 4, 2007

This post has been edited by canajan, eh?: 04 August 2007 - 08:06 AM

[earl]

canajan, eh?, on Aug 4 2007, 09:04 AM, said:

I, Jesus, disagree with your interpretation most strenuously, Soma. The goal of the spiritual aspirant is not to eradicate the feelings of "I and mine" as you say above, nor to see God as the Father alone (i.e. Father without Mother), or as unchanging, or as having no parts. The goal of the spiritual aspirant is to understand and appreciate the extreme diversity of all angelic beings in the universe. The goal is not to be colour-blind; the goal is to be appreciative of colour differences. The goal is to see that God the Mother and God the Father made each soul different from all other souls, and that each soul is therefore beautiful in his/her own special way. The goal is to be able to comprehend the vast scale of Creation, to be able to make room in your heart to love not one vast, unchanging, divine being (whom you call the Father), but to love thousands, millions, nay trillions of unique individuals simultaneously. The goal is to grow your heart three sizes bigger (to quote Dr. Seuss in "How the Grinch Stole Christmas.")

God the Mother and God the Father are not unchanging. We are all changed by each other's experiences in this grand and beautiful universe we live in. Are you, as a human being, unchanged and untouched by the people around you? Are you unchanged and untouched by somebody else's poignant song? Somebody else's poignant loss? Somebody else's miraculous discovery? Could you possibly be the person you are if you hadn't been changed for the better by the loving people around you? Can you imagine that God the Mother and God the Father are any less touched and changed by our bravery? Our sacrifices? Our compassionate love of our brothers and sisters everywhere on Planet Earth? We are a family. We are a family of eternal angelic beings. When one cries, we all cry -- not because we are part of one big being who has no parts, but because we have empathy for our Mother, Father, brothers and sisters.

Selfishness (and God knows there's plenty of that on the planet) could be defined as the refusal of the human brain to cope with change, since the soul's willingness to change is at the centre of everything good a human culture can create.

And selfishness, I think we would all agree, does not a happy culture make.

Love Jesus
August 4, 2007

Interesting view. So many mystical or contemplative spiritual traditions speak of an individual attaining a core awareness of an unconditioned state without bounds wherein we do indeed sense a unity comprised of a oneness with all creation. Because the core sense is of an uncondioned state it feels unchanging, not to mention timeless and trans-spatial. Also theologies traditionally speak of a "constant, unchanging" God. So at the end (if there really is such a thing) of one's spiritual journey do we find all sense of individuality meld into a Oness or does there remain a vestige of individuality? Seems as if this distinction is at the heart of differences between Western and Eastern spiritual views. Does God change? If so, in what ways might that be true? Interesting metaphysical questions. Earl